Comments on: Git up, Git up, Git Down, JLPT is the Joke in Yo’ Town: Why I Hate the JLPT and Why It’s a Waste of Your Time and Money http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/git-up-git-up-git-down-jlpt-is-the-joke-in-yo-town-why-i-hate-the-jlpt-and-why-its-a-waste-of-your-time-and-money You don't learn a language, you get used to it. Wed, 08 Feb 2012 18:37:39 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Catherine http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/git-up-git-up-git-down-jlpt-is-the-joke-in-yo-town-why-i-hate-the-jlpt-and-why-its-a-waste-of-your-time-and-money#comment-179129 Catherine Sun, 25 Dec 2011 23:02:26 +0000 http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/?p=309#comment-179129 I actually have to take the JLPT to go to this college I want to go to in Japan. :/ I reallly want to go to this college though so..yeah. >w< I actually have to take the JLPT to go to this college I want to go to in Japan. :/ I reallly want to go to this college though so..yeah. >w<

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

]]> By: rowena http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/git-up-git-up-git-down-jlpt-is-the-joke-in-yo-town-why-i-hate-the-jlpt-and-why-its-a-waste-of-your-time-and-money#comment-172262 rowena Mon, 05 Dec 2011 01:02:21 +0000 http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/?p=309#comment-172262 i've taken yesterday's JLPT. just for the sake of experience. went there with an open mind. but, you're absolutely right! it's a friggin' waste of time. it was a huge fucking joke. the questions, well, at first i was being amused. but later on, it got pretty annoying. it got so fucking annoying. and i was like, wut? this is it? i took N4. why, i'm a my-pace kind of person so, i just laze around, listening to jpop, and watching random doramas and animes, reading random Nihonjin's blogs on the net, seldom touching my Nihongo learning materials. i have installed Anki, but i find it too boring. can't stand it for more than 10 mins. -_-" so yeah, i wasn't very confident with my Kanji knowledge. but, i think i'll do it again. i'll take N2 next December. if i think i can go for N1, i will, too. :)       i’ve taken yesterday’s JLPT. just for the sake of experience. went there with an open mind.
but, you’re absolutely right! it’s a friggin’ waste of time. it was a huge ******* joke.
the questions, well, at first i was being amused. but later on, it got pretty annoying. it got so ******* annoying.
and i was like, wut? this is it?
i took N4. why, i’m a my-pace kind of person so, i just laze around, listening to jpop, and watching random doramas and animes, reading random Nihonjin’s blogs on the net, seldom touching my Nihongo learning materials. i have installed Anki, but i find it too boring. can’t stand it for more than 10 mins. -_-”
so yeah, i wasn’t very confident with my Kanji knowledge.
but, i think i’ll do it again. i’ll take N2 next December.
if i think i can go for N1, i will, too. :)
 
 
 

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

]]> By: dip-C http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/git-up-git-up-git-down-jlpt-is-the-joke-in-yo-town-why-i-hate-the-jlpt-and-why-its-a-waste-of-your-time-and-money#comment-150342 dip-C Thu, 27 Oct 2011 16:16:16 +0000 http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/?p=309#comment-150342 I think there are a couple of things that should be taken into consideration, but are missing. One point is: Languages change, much faster than the specifications of tests. It's a simple fact I've been confronted with while learning French at school in the mid-1990ies. I'm a native German and the relationship between Germans and French has always been pretty tricky, much like the Japanese and the Koreans still struggle today, but it has become so much better after WWII, probably not only because of a friendship treaty, but also the idea of the European Union. My French book had been published in the early '70ies, which implies that the concept must've been penned in the 60ies. In the 60ies, the main purposes of choosing to learn French were: a) not having to learn latin b) for going on vacation c) doing business with the French (probably...). The European idea had not yet emerged and you could feel it throughout the textbooks. The biggest part of things you learned was dealing with touristic stuff. Going camping, understanding the history of the castle you were standing in front of, interpreting for your parents, which was not neccessary since my parents were very active organising events and exchanges with the French twin-town ever since I was little. I had been used to French and had wanted to talk French and talk to my family's French friends about 'normal everyday things', they even had children only a few years older than me. But I couldn't. I was stuck with the tourist attitude of my textbook and teachers that apparently didn't belive French was anything more than a compulsory second foreign language. It was not about actually speaking French (my spoken French is pretty much ok), but reproducing the grammar and vocabulary as if it merely were some kind of math problem. Two years later, my younger sister started learning French, too. And she finally learned it with a new book. While that did not change the teachers' attitudes, it still provided a much better approach. The book did not start with "things you need to know when staying at a hotel in France", but dealt much more with the issues of being an exchange student.   Another point I'm missing is that, although my French book was a horrible example, modern books have several intentions aiming at different aspects of the language. My English book was a pretty good one, actually. It also featured the 'exchange student' situation as an introduction to both, the language and the culture (starting with the british, but also, althought rather briefly, other parts of the anglophone world with focusing on the US for two years later on). One of the more underrated aspects of language are sociolects. Concerning this, it's the aim of language teaching that you are able to appear as educated as possible, thus raising the bar to an 'elaborate' way of speaking and writing. That also tries to give you the possibilty to be able to understand highly official or academical texts and speeches. And it's crucial. 'Lowering' you level of speech is much easier than only being able to speak like a pre-schooler, but trying to read an academic paper or even just the explainations for customs at the entry. Please remember that, and I think it's not limited to Germany, most native Germans are puzzled when confronted with reading a law. That's a German quite of its own, rather archaic at times. So, since the aim is teaching you the formal variation of the language, it's the aim of the test to measure that. Every day language is not the same.  If formal language was a glass full of water, every day language would be a glass of water with a few gulps missing. You can always easily drink or pour some water to make the glass only half full, but it's more complicated to go back to a full glass when there is no water you could pour into the glass, isn't it? For some time we had an exchange student from the German School in Mexico city in my class. She spoke the language that is typical for textbooks and there was absolutely nothing wron with her German. She got really good grades on her tests and exams, even when that had been a German essay or an interpretation of one of the shorter works of Kafka. She got along perfectly. The only 'downside' was that she kept sounding like our parents because she had missed some of the more recent changes in spoken language, but picked them up after a month or two. I think there are a couple of things that should be taken into consideration, but are missing.
One point is: Languages change, much faster than the specifications of tests. It’s a simple fact I’ve been confronted with while learning French at school in the mid-1990ies. I’m a native German and the relationship between Germans and French has always been pretty tricky, much like the Japanese and the Koreans still struggle today, but it has become so much better after WWII, probably not only because of a friendship treaty, but also the idea of the European Union.
My French book had been published in the early ’70ies, which implies that the concept must’ve been penned in the 60ies. In the 60ies, the main purposes of choosing to learn French were: a) not having to learn latin b) for going on vacation c) doing business with the French (probably…). The European idea had not yet emerged and you could feel it throughout the textbooks. The biggest part of things you learned was dealing with touristic stuff. Going camping, understanding the history of the castle you were standing in front of, interpreting for your parents, which was not neccessary since my parents were very active organising events and exchanges with the French twin-town ever since I was little. I had been used to French and had wanted to talk French and talk to my family’s French friends about ‘normal everyday things’, they even had children only a few years older than me. But I couldn’t. I was stuck with the tourist attitude of my textbook and teachers that apparently didn’t belive French was anything more than a compulsory second foreign language. It was not about actually speaking French (my spoken French is pretty much ok), but reproducing the grammar and vocabulary as if it merely were some kind of math problem.
Two years later, my younger sister started learning French, too. And she finally learned it with a new book. While that did not change the teachers’ attitudes, it still provided a much better approach. The book did not start with “things you need to know when staying at a hotel in France”, but dealt much more with the issues of being an exchange student.
 
Another point I’m missing is that, although my French book was a horrible example, modern books have several intentions aiming at different aspects of the language.
My English book was a pretty good one, actually. It also featured the ‘exchange student’ situation as an introduction to both, the language and the culture (starting with the british, but also, althought rather briefly, other parts of the anglophone world with focusing on the US for two years later on).
One of the more underrated aspects of language are sociolects. Concerning this, it’s the aim of language teaching that you are able to appear as educated as possible, thus raising the bar to an ‘elaborate’ way of speaking and writing. That also tries to give you the possibilty to be able to understand highly official or academical texts and speeches. And it’s crucial.
‘Lowering’ you level of speech is much easier than only being able to speak like a pre-schooler, but trying to read an academic paper or even just the explainations for customs at the entry. Please remember that, and I think it’s not limited to Germany, most native Germans are puzzled when confronted with reading a law. That’s a German quite of its own, rather archaic at times.
So, since the aim is teaching you the formal variation of the language, it’s the aim of the test to measure that.
Every day language is not the same.  If formal language was a glass full of water, every day language would be a glass of water with a few gulps missing. You can always easily drink or pour some water to make the glass only half full, but it’s more complicated to go back to a full glass when there is no water you could pour into the glass, isn’t it?
For some time we had an exchange student from the German School in Mexico city in my class. She spoke the language that is typical for textbooks and there was absolutely nothing wron with her German. She got really good grades on her tests and exams, even when that had been a German essay or an interpretation of one of the shorter works of Kafka. She got along perfectly. The only ‘downside’ was that she kept sounding like our parents because she had missed some of the more recent changes in spoken language, but picked them up after a month or two.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

]]> By: Are You Woman / Man Enough To Read This Post Till The End? Well, Are Ya???! « T.G In Tokyo http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/git-up-git-up-git-down-jlpt-is-the-joke-in-yo-town-why-i-hate-the-jlpt-and-why-its-a-waste-of-your-time-and-money#comment-89775 Are You Woman / Man Enough To Read This Post Till The End? Well, Are Ya???! « T.G In Tokyo Sun, 03 Apr 2011 14:46:18 +0000 http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/?p=309#comment-89775 [...] in no particular order so I may very well “discover” a post from 2007 today), called Git up, Git up, Git Down, JLPT is the Joke in Yo’ Town: Why I Hate the JLPT and Why It’s a Wast..., I totally related because it was the qualifications-for-a-language story all over again. [...] [...] in no particular order so I may very well “discover” a post from 2007 today), called Git up, Git up, Git Down, JLPT is the Joke in Yo’ Town: Why I Hate the JLPT and Why It’s a Wast…, I totally related because it was the qualifications-for-a-language story all over again. [...]

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

]]> By: Jason http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/git-up-git-up-git-down-jlpt-is-the-joke-in-yo-town-why-i-hate-the-jlpt-and-why-its-a-waste-of-your-time-and-money#comment-81268 Jason Thu, 24 Feb 2011 18:34:42 +0000 http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/?p=309#comment-81268 道をヨロヨロ歩いているチンピラもヤンキーもできるよ、このテストを。 Any thug or gangster down the street can probably easily pass JLPT level 1.....yeah...tell that to your Japanese teachers.. 道をヨロヨロ歩いているチンピラもヤンキーもできるよ、このテストを。

Any thug or gangster down the street can probably easily pass JLPT level 1…..yeah…tell that to your Japanese teachers..

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

]]> By: Mike http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/git-up-git-up-git-down-jlpt-is-the-joke-in-yo-town-why-i-hate-the-jlpt-and-why-its-a-waste-of-your-time-and-money#comment-73900 Mike Wed, 26 Jan 2011 16:53:19 +0000 http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/?p=309#comment-73900 Khatz should really add a huge warning label at the top of this post. With all of the immigration changes coming in and the Japanese love of certifications you will not be the last to be rejected for a visa due to lack of proof of Japanese ability. I hate standardized tests, but so many recruiters and HR departments want to see that certification that the time and money are trivial in comparison to lost opportunity. Khatz should really add a huge warning label at the top of this post. With all of the immigration changes coming in and the Japanese love of certifications you will not be the last to be rejected for a visa due to lack of proof of Japanese ability.

I hate standardized tests, but so many recruiters and HR departments want to see that certification that the time and money are trivial in comparison to lost opportunity.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1

]]> By: Jason http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/git-up-git-up-git-down-jlpt-is-the-joke-in-yo-town-why-i-hate-the-jlpt-and-why-its-a-waste-of-your-time-and-money#comment-73895 Jason Wed, 26 Jan 2011 16:35:04 +0000 http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/?p=309#comment-73895 Here's a suggestion: Don't take ANY JLPT tests below N1 until you are absolutely fluent..I mean freaking native level fluent. When you reach that stage, then go take the test. It will probably be a walk in the park. Here’s a suggestion:

Don’t take ANY JLPT tests below N1 until you are absolutely fluent..I mean freaking native level fluent.

When you reach that stage, then go take the test.

It will probably be a walk in the park.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

]]> By: Tyler (Brokenvai) http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/git-up-git-up-git-down-jlpt-is-the-joke-in-yo-town-why-i-hate-the-jlpt-and-why-its-a-waste-of-your-time-and-money#comment-71711 Tyler (Brokenvai) Mon, 17 Jan 2011 01:15:50 +0000 http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/?p=309#comment-71711 If it's required for your field of work, do it and get it out of the way. Otherwise, trash it. Those who study Japanese for the JLPT will be proficient at JLPT testing, and envy others who can actually function in a -Japanese- environment. As seen by those proficient in Japanese: the JLPT is almost an insult. If you need the test, you don't need Japanese. If it’s required for your field of work, do it and get it out of the way. Otherwise, trash it.

Those who study Japanese for the JLPT will be proficient at JLPT testing, and envy others who can actually function in a -Japanese- environment. As seen by those proficient in Japanese: the JLPT is almost an insult.

If you need the test, you don’t need Japanese.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

]]> By: maus http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/git-up-git-up-git-down-jlpt-is-the-joke-in-yo-town-why-i-hate-the-jlpt-and-why-its-a-waste-of-your-time-and-money#comment-71248 maus Fri, 14 Jan 2011 23:03:12 +0000 http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/?p=309#comment-71248 For your entertainment: I too used to pride myself in exalting my fellow language learners to neither worry nor care about the JLPT. 'You're fluent enough! --Just keep the $50!-- It's such a hassle driving to New York (to take it!)' And time after time I proudly navigated myself through Japanese language opportunities by my own wit and language ability(?), surviving keigo-laced interviews, inaudible Japanese language phone calls, e-mails and the like. Even managed to earn acceptance into a legit senmongakkou. However, when my senmongakkou applied for a certificate of eligibility (在留資格確認証明書） on my behalf, Immigration told them I wouldn't be issued a visa without JLPT 2 or higher (or 6 months at a Certified Japanese program, or 12 months at a Japanese university-- my academic year abroad didn't cut it). Man alive, how I wished I'd taken the JLPT! Jumping through that one hoop and shelling out the USD$50 for a JLPT certificate would have saved me a lot of wasted time and effort in the long run. So, 日本語を頑張っている皆様、ビザが下りない恐れがありますので充分にご注意くださいますようお願い申し上げます！ For your entertainment:
I too used to pride myself in exalting my fellow language learners to neither worry nor care about the JLPT. ‘You’re fluent enough! –Just keep the $50!– It’s such a hassle driving to New York (to take it!)’ And time after time I proudly navigated myself through Japanese language opportunities by my own wit and language ability(?), surviving keigo-laced interviews, inaudible Japanese language phone calls, e-mails and the like. Even managed to earn acceptance into a legit senmongakkou. However, when my senmongakkou applied for a certificate of eligibility (在留資格確認証明書） on my behalf, Immigration told them I wouldn’t be issued a visa without JLPT 2 or higher (or 6 months at a Certified Japanese program, or 12 months at a Japanese university– my academic year abroad didn’t cut it). Man alive, how I wished I’d taken the JLPT! Jumping through that one hoop and shelling out the USD$50 for a JLPT certificate would have saved me a lot of wasted time and effort in the long run. So, 日本語を頑張っている皆様、ビザが下りない恐れがありますので充分にご注意くださいますようお願い申し上げます！

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

]]> By: swedmonkey http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/git-up-git-up-git-down-jlpt-is-the-joke-in-yo-town-why-i-hate-the-jlpt-and-why-its-a-waste-of-your-time-and-money#comment-68864 swedmonkey Mon, 03 Jan 2011 15:21:46 +0000 http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/?p=309#comment-68864 Alright, I do understand that a mere test doesn't prove your "real" fluency of a language by any means. I also believe that you shouldn't completely ditch it though. I mean, if you are looking for a job and having passed JLPT1 is required for most of them; then go for it. I mean, if you are already fluent, studying some piece of schoolbook-grammar shouldn't prove to be THAT difficult. Also, I salute to AJATT, I think it's a really awesome method to learn any language. BUT, I also believe that reading some old books about grammar can give you a good foundation to stand on. Japanese is my third language; I am Swedish. And yeah, I learned English from school, and I find that having that piece of grammar in the back of my head has nothing but helped me to get that awesome intuition of when a sentence sounds "right" or wrong. Haha now because I've said all this I've surely gone and done some newbie mistakes here and there, but w/e. Anyway, I really love this site and your posts are incredibly motivating, khatz. Don't ever stop writing! ;P Alright, I do understand that a mere test doesn’t prove your “real” fluency of a language by any means. I also believe that you shouldn’t completely ditch it though. I mean, if you are looking for a job and having passed JLPT1 is required for most of them; then go for it. I mean, if you are already fluent, studying some piece of schoolbook-grammar shouldn’t prove to be THAT difficult.

Also, I salute to AJATT, I think it’s a really awesome method to learn any language. BUT, I also believe that reading some old books about grammar can give you a good foundation to stand on. Japanese is my third language; I am Swedish. And yeah, I learned English from school, and I find that having that piece of grammar in the back of my head has nothing but helped me to get that awesome intuition of when a sentence sounds “right” or wrong. Haha now because I’ve said all this I’ve surely gone and done some newbie mistakes here and there, but w/e. Anyway, I really love this site and your posts are incredibly motivating, khatz. Don’t ever stop writing! ;P

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

]]> By: 4fksake http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/git-up-git-up-git-down-jlpt-is-the-joke-in-yo-town-why-i-hate-the-jlpt-and-why-its-a-waste-of-your-time-and-money#comment-68833 4fksake Mon, 03 Jan 2011 11:10:42 +0000 http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/?p=309#comment-68833 How is criticizing something lowering oneself? I disapprove of adults putting their cigarettes out on little children's faces. I think those adults are cowards and monsters. I also hate adults who rape little children. I think those adults should be impaled Vlad-style. Oh, did I just lower myself by criticizing child beaters and child molesters? Further, criticizing things isn't a waste of time. It is one way of changing the world. As to your everything or nothing argument--I am calling foul on your attempt to set up the issue in those terms. Why do you choose to set it up as everything or nothing? The person who wrote the article did not. You are trying to falsely set it up as though he did, though. That is pretty sneaky and underhanded. You are simply presenting that as the only possibilities so that you can try to set up the question in a way that you can win it despite the fact that you are unable to successfully argue against the criticisms in the article. Whether it contributed to your Japanese as a whole is beside the point in the face of the fact that you could have achieved the same Japanese proficiency without taking the jlpt. Your argument is either moronic or diversionary. Don't know which since I don't know whether you are a moron or a snake. Your argument is the same as me saying that spending $1,000 on a limousine ride to get from one end of town to the other was worth it since it got me where I wanted to go. Well, if I am not a wealthy person (so that $1000 would be a very large sum of money for me) and I could have gotten across town by driving my car or some similarly cheap but equally efficient method, then it would be pretty worthless and stupid to spend $1000, wouldn't it? It is really unbelievable how many nonsensical and illogical arguments I read on the internet in support of taking the jlpt. But then, when people want to justify their own bad decisions, they always have to use convoluted logic to rationalize things to themselves so really it only figures. How is criticizing something lowering oneself? I disapprove of adults putting their cigarettes out on little children’s faces. I think those adults are cowards and monsters. I also hate adults who rape little children. I think those adults should be impaled Vlad-style. Oh, did I just lower myself by criticizing child beaters and child molesters?

Further, criticizing things isn’t a waste of time. It is one way of changing the world.

As to your everything or nothing argument–I am calling foul on your attempt to set up the issue in those terms. Why do you choose to set it up as everything or nothing? The person who wrote the article did not. You are trying to falsely set it up as though he did, though. That is pretty sneaky and underhanded. You are simply presenting that as the only possibilities so that you can try to set up the question in a way that you can win it despite the fact that you are unable to successfully argue against the criticisms in the article.

Whether it contributed to your Japanese as a whole is beside the point in the face of the fact that you could have achieved the same Japanese proficiency without taking the jlpt. Your argument is either moronic or diversionary. Don’t know which since I don’t know whether you are a moron or a snake. Your argument is the same as me saying that spending $1,000 on a limousine ride to get from one end of town to the other was worth it since it got me where I wanted to go. Well, if I am not a wealthy person (so that $1000 would be a very large sum of money for me) and I could have gotten across town by driving my car or some similarly cheap but equally efficient method, then it would be pretty worthless and stupid to spend $1000, wouldn’t it?

It is really unbelievable how many nonsensical and illogical arguments I read on the internet in support of taking the jlpt. But then, when people want to justify their own bad decisions, they always have to use convoluted logic to rationalize things to themselves so really it only figures.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

]]> By: 4fksake http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/git-up-git-up-git-down-jlpt-is-the-joke-in-yo-town-why-i-hate-the-jlpt-and-why-its-a-waste-of-your-time-and-money#comment-65565 4fksake Sat, 18 Dec 2010 17:45:28 +0000 http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/?p=309#comment-65565 Hmmm, maybe the pass level is around 50% because mostly idiots take these levels of jlpt? The pass level isn't low because the n4 and n5 are hard...it is low because most of the people sitting for these suck. It would be comparable to the GED in America. I am sure that has a bad pass rate, too...not because the GED is some mark of academic proficiency but because most of the people who take it can't read, write, or do arithmetic. It is often a mark of someone's academic insufficiency just as the n4 and n5 are a signal of someone's Japanese incompetence. And telling the truth has nothing to do with feeling better about myself. Does taking remedial tests give you some kind of ego boost? Sadly, I am sure it does. Hmmm, maybe the pass level is around 50% because mostly idiots take these levels of jlpt? The pass level isn’t low because the n4 and n5 are hard…it is low because most of the people sitting for these suck. It would be comparable to the GED in America. I am sure that has a bad pass rate, too…not because the GED is some mark of academic proficiency but because most of the people who take it can’t read, write, or do arithmetic. It is often a mark of someone’s academic insufficiency just as the n4 and n5 are a signal of someone’s Japanese incompetence. And telling the truth has nothing to do with feeling better about myself. Does taking remedial tests give you some kind of ego boost? Sadly, I am sure it does.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 2

]]> By: So I took the JLPT | Attack! Language http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/git-up-git-up-git-down-jlpt-is-the-joke-in-yo-town-why-i-hate-the-jlpt-and-why-its-a-waste-of-your-time-and-money#comment-63748 So I took the JLPT | Attack! Language Wed, 08 Dec 2010 10:46:22 +0000 http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/?p=309#comment-63748 [...] has their own opinions on this test; many feel it’s not worth taking at all, and for a lot of reasons, I wouldn’t disagree [...] [...] has their own opinions on this test; many feel it’s not worth taking at all, and for a lot of reasons, I wouldn’t disagree [...]

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

]]> By: Jacinda http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/git-up-git-up-git-down-jlpt-is-the-joke-in-yo-town-why-i-hate-the-jlpt-and-why-its-a-waste-of-your-time-and-money#comment-63498 Jacinda Mon, 06 Dec 2010 21:24:09 +0000 http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/?p=309#comment-63498 oh thank god! "japanese language proficiency test proficiency test" I was made to take this when I was in Japan with a university over there. I can hold a Japanese conversation fairly well (not perfect grammatically, but understandable) and got so disheartened when I failed the level 2. oh thank god! “japanese language proficiency test proficiency test”

I was made to take this when I was in Japan with a university over there. I can hold a Japanese conversation fairly well (not perfect grammatically, but understandable) and got so disheartened when I failed the level 2.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

]]> By: 紗織 http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/git-up-git-up-git-down-jlpt-is-the-joke-in-yo-town-why-i-hate-the-jlpt-and-why-its-a-waste-of-your-time-and-money#comment-63457 紗織 Mon, 06 Dec 2010 15:19:41 +0000 http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/?p=309#comment-63457 Maybe someone could give me some insight here. I realized that on the JLPT N4, I understood the longer paragraphs much better than the shorter sentences. I thought that I just didn't know enough vocab, but I realized I knew all the vocab. My problem was, I didn't know how they wanted me to use those vocabulary in the sentence they provided. So what do I need to work on here? I understood the sentences too. I just didn't know which word would fit best. Maybe someone could give me some insight here. I realized that on the JLPT N4, I understood the longer paragraphs much better than the shorter sentences. I thought that I just didn’t know enough vocab, but I realized I knew all the vocab. My problem was, I didn’t know how they wanted me to use those vocabulary in the sentence they provided. So what do I need to work on here? I understood the sentences too. I just didn’t know which word would fit best.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

]]> By: 紗織 http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/git-up-git-up-git-down-jlpt-is-the-joke-in-yo-town-why-i-hate-the-jlpt-and-why-its-a-waste-of-your-time-and-money#comment-63355 紗織 Mon, 06 Dec 2010 01:47:47 +0000 http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/?p=309#comment-63355 I should have taken Khatzumoto's advice and avoided the JLPT exam at all costs. I took the N4, without realizing that it's just a ranking that's worthless and proves I'm not fluent yet, whether I passed it or not (as I've noticed, only N2 and N1 matter to employers). I already knew I wasn't fluent. No point in taking it. And seeing the path of all the people taking the JLPT with me, it seems like they are taking courses that teach to the JLPT. I can imagine their Japanese being very limited in the future. Plus, the JLPT only tests reading and listening. And the listening component is very short. The N4 had nothing about keigo, which was also surprising. And there were furigana on very easy kanji, like 料理, another surprise. Rather than studying to the test, my plan is to aim for fluency, and be able to interview just as well as any other Japanese native-speaker. Rather than waste my money again. If every class taught to the JLPT test, all the foreigners coming to Japan would have the same thing to offer. What a screwed up test, just like the SAT. I should have taken Khatzumoto’s advice and avoided the JLPT exam at all costs. I took the N4, without realizing that it’s just a ranking that’s worthless and proves I’m not fluent yet, whether I passed it or not (as I’ve noticed, only N2 and N1 matter to employers). I already knew I wasn’t fluent. No point in taking it. And seeing the path of all the people taking the JLPT with me, it seems like they are taking courses that teach to the JLPT. I can imagine their Japanese being very limited in the future. Plus, the JLPT only tests reading and listening. And the listening component is very short. The N4 had nothing about keigo, which was also surprising. And there were furigana on very easy kanji, like 料理, another surprise. Rather than studying to the test, my plan is to aim for fluency, and be able to interview just as well as any other Japanese native-speaker. Rather than waste my money again.

If every class taught to the JLPT test, all the foreigners coming to Japan would have the same thing to offer. What a screwed up test, just like the SAT.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

]]> By: FlushingAccountant http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/git-up-git-up-git-down-jlpt-is-the-joke-in-yo-town-why-i-hate-the-jlpt-and-why-its-a-waste-of-your-time-and-money#comment-63204 FlushingAccountant Sun, 05 Dec 2010 05:13:54 +0000 http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/?p=309#comment-63204 Jason is correct. I have spoken with many native Japanese people and they have confirmed that after 10 years of smartphones and computer IMEs, they cannot really remember how to write out much kanji past the first 1,000. This definitely does not apply to all Japanese people but it does apply to the average Japanese adult. In any event, they can READ their kanji just fine. High school students can also write them out just fine. But after a Japanese adult has been out of school for 10 years or more, they lose a good deal of kanji writing ability if they don't practice. And with phones and computers that translate phonetics into kanji, it is not necessary to write them out (especially since a native Japanese person can always resort to using kana.) Jason is correct. I have spoken with many native Japanese people and they have confirmed that after 10 years of smartphones and computer IMEs, they cannot really remember how to write out much kanji past the first 1,000. This definitely does not apply to all Japanese people but it does apply to the average Japanese adult. In any event, they can READ their kanji just fine. High school students can also write them out just fine. But after a Japanese adult has been out of school for 10 years or more, they lose a good deal of kanji writing ability if they don’t practice. And with phones and computers that translate phonetics into kanji, it is not necessary to write them out (especially since a native Japanese person can always resort to using kana.)

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

]]> By: FlushingAccountant http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/git-up-git-up-git-down-jlpt-is-the-joke-in-yo-town-why-i-hate-the-jlpt-and-why-its-a-waste-of-your-time-and-money#comment-63203 FlushingAccountant Sun, 05 Dec 2010 05:05:33 +0000 http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/?p=309#comment-63203 Why would you need to insult people who want to take the N4 or N5? It is great that you are so proficient in Japanese but let people learn at their own pace :) The lower levels are only remedial to people who know a lot of Japanese. There are many people who clearly do not consider N4/N5 remedial since the passing rate for this level is around 50% in the United States. Putting down other people won't make you feel any better about yourself. Thank you. Why would you need to insult people who want to take the N4 or N5? It is great that you are so proficient in Japanese but let people learn at their own pace :) The lower levels are only remedial to people who know a lot of Japanese. There are many people who clearly do not consider N4/N5 remedial since the passing rate for this level is around 50% in the United States. Putting down other people won’t make you feel any better about yourself. Thank you.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

]]> By: Nick http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/git-up-git-up-git-down-jlpt-is-the-joke-in-yo-town-why-i-hate-the-jlpt-and-why-its-a-waste-of-your-time-and-money#comment-60456 Nick Mon, 15 Nov 2010 18:17:54 +0000 http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/?p=309#comment-60456 Whether the test is wrong or not, you still wasted a lot of time writing a long article smashing it, when you could've learnt some new phrases or kanji. If it's really so pointless, why lower yourself to criticise it? I have JLPT 1. I don't think it makes me a native speaker or anything, but I certainly worked hard to pass it and I would be lying if I said it didn't contribute towards my ability in Japanese as a whole. True, it's not everything, but it's certainly not nothing. Whether the test is wrong or not, you still wasted a lot of time writing a long article smashing it, when you could’ve learnt some new phrases or kanji.

If it’s really so pointless, why lower yourself to criticise it?

I have JLPT 1. I don’t think it makes me a native speaker or anything, but I certainly worked hard to pass it and I would be lying if I said it didn’t contribute towards my ability in Japanese as a whole.

True, it’s not everything,
but it’s certainly not nothing.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1

]]> By: Your Way Doesn’t Have To Be “Right”, It Just Has To Work: Language Acquisition and Cybernetics | AJATT | All Japanese All The Time http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/git-up-git-up-git-down-jlpt-is-the-joke-in-yo-town-why-i-hate-the-jlpt-and-why-its-a-waste-of-your-time-and-money#comment-56581 Your Way Doesn’t Have To Be “Right”, It Just Has To Work: Language Acquisition and Cybernetics | AJATT | All Japanese All The Time Thu, 30 Sep 2010 15:02:13 +0000 http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/?p=309#comment-56581 [...] and decides that: “knowing” a language means being able to take boring, arbitrary, authority-presuming tests on it administered by people you neither know nor like, then that’s fine, too — [...] [...] and decides that: “knowing” a language means being able to take boring, arbitrary, authority-presuming tests on it administered by people you neither know nor like, then that’s fine, too — [...]

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

]]>