As for the JLPT NOT being necessary- Maybe if you are doing a job interview with Khatz, and then that would be very true. Unfortunately MANY companies, especially here in Japan REQUIRE that you have level 1 or at least level 2 even to get an interview. I lucked out and got an interview with a Japanese company with level 2 at the time. Once I got in the interiview and they spoke to me and were holding my resume in hand – the test didn’t matter so much. But I was LUCKY. If you want to work for many Japanese OR Foreign companies, having level 1 is important, even if it is just to get an interview.

Khatz, you’ve forged an impressive example in this country. Clearly you think light years outside the box, but no degree of hyperbole should mask the plain fact that many opportunities for employment and higher education (leading to higher employment) exist for us if we pass 2/1-kyuu, and ONLY if we pass 2/1-kyuu. That’s we, native speakers of another, possibly global language that isn’t Japanese. A huge asset in Japan.

Maybe the Japanese equivalent of you got fluent with their bad self without ever going kaigai, then cruised into Silicon Valley to start a new life as a professional alien, armed only with a Japanese passport, a Japanese college degree, and a working knowledge of every Chappelle’s Show script straight down to Diddy’s predilection for Cambodian breast milk. But I really gotta imagine for every one of those, there’s 10,000 just like them who took one of the English tests just cause it gave them a better chance at getting ahead. And for some number of those, I gotta imagine studying for and taking that test was actually FUN.

The way of the autodidact is fraught with fun, or so you’ve led me to believe? Why can’t the JLPT be fun? It’s a part of my routine now, along with fun practice like radio, TV, websites, and old SNES games in J. By itself maybe a bore for some/most, but spicing it up with your prescription of native materials makes it a lot more believable. Sure, it’s draconian, expensive, and not intuitive, but A JAPANESE PERSON COULD PASS IT – and we’re trying to become Japanese people, aren’t we? And if it does open career doors for gaijins which would otherwise remain shut, what is the harm?

The examinee has mastered grammar to a high level, knows around 2,000 kanji and 10,000 words, and has an integrated command of the language sufficient for life in Japanese society. This level is normally reached after studying Japanese for around 900 hours.

I think you’re confusing the JLPT with the JKAT or the Nihongo Kentei, both of which are for native speakers, not foreign learners.

The JKAT (Japanese Kanji Aptitude Test) level 1 (few people in Japan can pass that) and the 日本語検定 (Nihongo Kentei) level 1… which is a Japanese proficiency test FOR NATIVE SPEAKERS. Level 1 is aimed at Japanese college graduates.

Secondly, don’t end sentences with prepositions. You can make fun of grammar all you want, as long as you use it correctly, mister arrogant.

Standardized test are one of the pillars of Japanese society. No one would want to accept responsibility for assessing writing or speaking.

Love the site. Keep up the good work!

ref.: http://www.ciep.fr/en/delfdalf/

1) I wouldn’t say it was actually good for motivation or that I really cared about the test itself (I mean this is the JLPT Level 4 that we’re talking about) but the action of taking it was at least a signal to myself; the waving of the flag to restart the race of learning Japanese.

2) Having taken it, if I want study Japanese at university in the future then I shouldn’t have to spend the entirety of a semester re-studying things I already know. I think I probably will try for university, but even if I don’t it’s still good to have the option open to me.

Not for your views on standardized tests, but for your innovative use of the word “billclinton”.

I don’t mean to suggest that there is a scale from social loser to refined sophisticate and that the JLPT separates the cream of the crop from the potty-mouthed, under-educated rejects. Clearly, this is not the case. But it is about types of language and, as the Japanese love to say, TPO. My boyfriend and I speak in Japanese-ified English or English-ified Japanese every single day, and I couldn’t agree more that studying for the JLPT doesn’t help me understand about 95% of the Japanese stuff that he says to me. But can we not all agree that there is more to any language than everyday boyfriend/girlfriend conversation? As much as I like to consider myself intellectually curious, I frankly don’t and don’t care to engage in formal, philosophical, high-level conversation with my close friends on a regular basis. I find that it neutralizes the lovey-doviness. Also, unless you have years to sit around slowly absorbing the language without cracking a book (or, alternatively, the insanity required to totally cut yourself of from everything and everyone that you love in your native language – some would call this the pinnacle of motivation, and I would call it a person with pitifully narrow interests), the “just let it wash over you” approach isn’t gonna do it for you. Nor is the “only watch TV” approach or the “only read blog posts” approach or whatever other kind of “do what you like” nonsense someone barfs up. If you want real fluency, you can’t skip the formal (and I am being very liberal with the term, as I am totally with the people who say that they encounter the things in the JLPT books/test on a daily (read: informal/conventional/normal/natural) basis as well) any more than you can skip the conversational. My listening skills are through the roof compared to my kanji, vocabulary, and grammar skills, which means that if I want to be totally fluent, as in able to speak, write, and participate in adult society like an educated person who reads, I absolutely must force myself to learn the JLPT stuff (and more!!). Period.

I wouldn’t be able to get any of those

Only on words, he was very clear the he thinks “studying” for the JLPT is bad, regardless of the material, be it in japanese or not, with standard pre-set “robotic” phrases or not.
Besides, if not, than studying for a test you will never take makes even less sense…
But if you aren’t taking and still use the material you are not “studying” for the test, you are using the material for other purposes.

If I agreed to this, I’d be thinking something like this: “I am not taking the test, but I’ll use this awesome source of sentences/grammar explanations in japanese for something else(AJATT) and then bash the poor soul that uses the thing for the purpose it was intended to(JLPT) and then claim there are workarounds to the test like going to the company and screaming “you suck so much, even though you pay your employees so well, I will not waste my time taking a test that could be for the best job of my life!!! Damn you stupid corporation, I’ll find another one, and If I don’t I’ll never live in japan, and it is your fault not mine, because it was my decision not to take the test, not yours”"

“In addition, why do you have to PAY MONEY for something you can do for free? If passing the JLPT is so important, just get an old copy of the test and do it yourself with the same time restrictions.”

Yes, when all fails resort to the fee and how you can get better for free, yeah, you do know a test is meaningless if there is nobody to correct it and tell you that you failed/passed right?Unless you want me to fake the test and the certification, I need the real thing.

“You don’t have to pay 70 dollars, go to an inconvenient location at an inconvenient time of the year to take an inconvenient test to see how it determines your current level of Japanese.”

If you want to take the test you will make the time for it, and the money for it, it would only be inconvenient if you are being forced to do it and don’t think it is worth it, in other words, back to the start.

“It’s akin to paying 100 dollars to enter a marathon to see how well you’ll do when there’s 26.2 miles of road right outside your house you can run on for free.”

Only there is only one marathon with the “prize” you want, and you can’t race it outside your house you see. You might as well tell F1 drivers they don’t need to pay for the racing license, and that even though they earn millions, it is not worth to pay the license and they could just get their bicycle and race outside their houses.There was a news about that, but the drivers that complained about the fee are still there, and winning too!
If my dream is to be a pilot, should I be ranting against the FAA or whoever gives out the pilot licenses(after tests of course) or should I just quit my dream because I have this strange notion that tests suck and paying for a private license isn’t worth it?
I know driver and pilot licenses are not the same thing as the JLPT, but if I made my mind I would never take and agree to any test that gives out a certificate, I would be able to get any of those.

“Again, unless you’re getting a tangible benefit like college credit, more money at the US taxpayer expense, or other things I can’t think of; then what is taking the JLPT actually giving you that you can’t give yourself?”

The “tangible benefit” is the certification that can get only through the test and that is required by the majority of japanese corporations hiring foreigners and also by I think most schools where you can go(not sure here as I never looked for them). I do think it doesn’t sound very fair, but give me a call when it changes ok? They might even eradicate all the poverty in africa while they are at it(you know, not happening?)

Yes I know the job thing might be getting old, but so is the “it costs money!!!” “you actually have to go outside and not sit your bottom 24h at home doing AJATT, so it is very inconvenient!!!” story.

her e-drama is at:
http://raspberrysyrup.livejournal.com/
http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Applemilk1988

youtubE:
http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=MG4h_yhDTys
http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=ZW6kjqZaKKM
http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=kp6dDKqNclo

By the way, as an Instructor for corrective and preventative maintenance of electronic equipment, here’s my take on “tests”. A test should be designed so that the person who knows the material can be able to pass 80% or more of the test WITHOUT studying for it, but a person that did not know the material has no chance of passing. The instant you introduce “studying” for the test, you essentially are creating a specialized knowledge that applies only to the test and not outside it.

In addition, why do you have to PAY MONEY for something you can do for free? If passing the JLPT is so important, just get an old copy of the test and do it yourself with the same time restrictions. You don’t have to pay 70 dollars, go to an inconvenient location at an inconvenient time of the year to take an inconvenient test to see how it determines your current level of Japanese. It’s akin to paying 100 dollars to enter a marathon to see how well you’ll do when there’s 26.2 miles of road right outside your house you can run on for free.

Again, unless you’re getting a tangible benefit like college credit, more money at the US taxpayer expense, or other things I can’t think of; then what is taking the JLPT actually giving you that you can’t give yourself?

That is the question the jlpt bashers can’t answer, other than the usual “not worth it”, “not real japanese”,” the FEE!!!” dodging…