“i’ve got an dänish accent in german and a german accent in dänish.In both countries they ask me where i come from.”

“Close friends, often get the same “melodi”, way to speak.I think this is tied to their native language, and is extreemly hard to fully lose.”

Don’t you think that may have something to do with the way you were exposed to these languages as a child?

“Im Dänish and have grown up in denmark with Dänish and German, since some in my family were germans, i went to german school too, though they also spoke dänish as well there.”

In my experience, picking up on the melody of a language is one of the first parts of learning a language. You apparently had an uncommon experience in your formative years, and now speak Danish and German with hints of each other, but this does not point out some sort of inability of the human mind to master more than one language at a time, nor even of your own mind. Your brain has already mastered these languages, in the way that you’ve learned them, and now you’re kinda like a British expat in the US who hasn’t shaken her accent despite hanging out with a lot of Americans. It can be done, and done well, but maybe you haven’t really “needed to” yet. Don’t sell yourself short.

I actually think all your points on, how to learn a language is right, since you tried it yourself and proved it.This is way of understanding and being able to talk in a language without problems, really does work how you say it, BUT, this article might have gotten to positive in that perspective:

Beeing able to talk in a language fluently and having an accent are two different things.
An example for myself.
Im Dänish and have grown up in denmark with Dänish and German, since some in my family were germans, i went to german school too, though they also spoke dänish as well there.
So I grew up speaking german and dänish equally good, there is no difference, and later ofcause i learned english.
(and now learning japanese)
So i’d my language learning skills are decent, i know i can learn any language i want to, but, without an accent?No,Simply because i’ve got an dänish accent in german and a german accent in dänish.In both countries they ask me where i come from.If i start to speak the one language more than the other, it’s lessens, but never completely.My point is, i can never speak several languages perfectly at the same time, i can’t even hear my accent myself, only natives can.

Telling me i have to dive deeper into the language or “let” go, won’t explain it.
I cannot dive deeper into any of these languages, they are my natives, my core, i’ve been a seller, talking all day long with people, i talk often.

It’s not that im bad at languages, im speaking three and learning a fourth.Actually i dont know one person who talks to languages without accents, and i’ve been to a german college where everyone speaked german and dänish fluently.But the accent, this damn accent, either they spoke german without an accent but dänish with one or the other way around.I’ve grown up in a place, where everyone knew 2-4 languages and yet they were only fluent in one at a time.Ofcause their native, but i havent got a native, mine a equal, therefore i have a (weak) accent in both.
You may be able to speak japanese and english, so that any native speaker (only hearing your voice) would be 100% that you are native as well.

But i have yet to confrim something like this, the reason of this accent problem i think, is this:

The last part of learning a language, is to perfect it’s Melodi, doing that to a extend is possible, but fully?Have you ever noticed that even within a language and dialect, everybody have their distinct way of speaking, their melodi. Close friends, often get the same “melodi”, way to speak.I think this is tied to their native language, and is extreemly hard to fully lose.You may lose it, but can you re-aquire it in an instant?Which true fluency is all about.I dont really think that a person can have more than one true melodi.You may lose your old, but have two at the same time?I doubt it.

I think that this is so, because i know none that speak more than one language without some kind of accent and because i speak no language without a slight accent.

I recently met two Korean guys living in my home city, through a Japanese friend. One had been here for a year two years ago studying English and was back for more study, the other (his cuz) had studied for 3 months in another capital city before looking for a job where I am. When I first met them, their English was ok, but not great, more or less what you’d expect from anyone stuck in a language school.

ANYWAY, they told me that I was the first Australian they had met in a social setting. The FIRST person. THE FIRST freakin’ Australian. Not for lack of wanting, but they said between classes full of Indian and Chinese people who also spoke ok-ish classroom English and homework, they had very little time to meet Australian and wouldn’t really have the foggiest idea where to find anyone if they did. Well, I could have cried.

Now, in our spare time we hang out and I’ve got them on to this method. Not only has their English improved through the roof in only four weeks, but so has their happiness. But talk about classes missing the forest for the trees, what the hell is the point in teaching them English if they never have time to actually use it?

@ Daniel and others;
I kinda have the opposite problem. When Japanese people find out I’ve got no Japanese girlfriend/wife and have only been there a month total in my life they kinda go “Huh…so, why are you good?” You should have seen this guy’s face when I told him it was because I was in love with Yu Aoi and Shina Ringo.

Or in other words, why aren’t you embaressed, person-who-has-lived-in-country-for-x-years?

*Googles it*

Oh. Cool.

It’s even worse that people say it in this revelatory manner: “OH…that’s why.” And they don’t even bother to think about it. Yes, my girlfriend emits magical Japanese Language Osmosis beams. Or maybe, just maybe, it’s that I put in on average 6 – 8 hours a day of conscious dedicated effort, study, and immersion, with a 10 hour a day job teaching English, while you complain that you’re too busy to do English even 10 minutes a week outside of class. Let’s see, my average month: 168+ hours of Japanese practice. Your average month: 4.66- hours of English practice. This is no mystery goddamnit, it’s simple math! I just practice 40 times harder than you do. I do what you do in a year in a week and a half. It’s a conscious choice on both our parts. (I remember doing this in class with whiny students one day but it had no effect…)

Not having your hard work acknowledged is a crappy feeling, but at least you have your pride and your own personal satisfaction. But having your achievements being dedicated to someone COMPLETELY UNRELATED is just maddening. Yeah, we speak Japanese together, but I speak Japanese with a lot of people.

I’d rather someone just spit in my face and kick me in the balls than “blame” my language ability on my girlfriend.

You don’t just magically get good at Japanese by living in Japan or having a Japanese wife. A guy in my company has been here over 10 years, married to a Japanese woman with two Japanese kids and he only speaks a little Japanese. He said his 9 year-old daughter can understand him completely when he speaks to her in English, but can’t speak back to him. That would make me cry, not being able to communicate with my kids.

The reason immersion doesn’t work for adults is simple- we can choose not to speak in the target language- it is easy for us to default to English. As Khatz has said- kids aren’t better than adults at language learning. It’s true, but they have no other option but to learn their native language if they want to communicate. If we have that attitude, we can achieve much, much better results.

Case in point: I’m speaking to the Japanese soldiers on base, and when I mention I lived in Japan for 2 years (if you called station on a ship that sometimes docks in Japan as living in Japan) and my (current) wife is Japanese (though we talk pretty much in English). Well, of course that’s why I speak Japanese. Those 1 to 2 hours a day of study for 18 months and thousands of hours listening to Japanese had nothing to do with it. Kind of gets down right insulting at times, though it’s unintentional on their part.

What really bad about it is they’re reinforcing the wrong idea when it comes to getting better at English. Come on guys, you say you study English everyday yet you sit in Japanese only groups at the dining hall and club? Park yourself in front of the TV at least (ok, maybe not when Fox News is playing).

Yeah, I’d say her English is Upper-Intermediate or so, so we can have good discussions in English…that’s our primary language to use. But for me to speak Japanese with her it’d be like a mother teaching her toddler to speak at this point…and to spend a day like that WOULD frustrate us I think. But you’re right I’m not gonna give up hehe.

She’s impressed that I’ve learned so much within 10 months of study. I’m all self-taught and do about 2-3 hours a day of study. She mainly helps me with minor grammatical errors and pronunciation flubs but it’s fun anyway

My goal is to be able to be around our friends or her parents and be able to communicate with them. So far we haven’t met due to the language barrier as her parents know no English.

What really doesn’t help is we are both hooked on a few English speaking TV shows…so we spend hours in that haha. But when we aren’t around I’m still trying the Japanese immersion.

I’m happy with where I’m at I think…sometimes when I feel down about it I see my progress thus far and it motivates me. Thanks for your advice

In our case, I had several other Japanese friends who I could speak to, and he was in the UK to study and improve his English, and we both knew that when he got back to Japan he wouldn’t have many people to practise with or much time to put into it, so I ended up speaking in English 90% of the time to him. We argued and had serious discussions in Japanese though. I think an important rule to follow is that when you’re talking about anything serious, you should do it in whatever way is going to be the most easily understood, whether that’s English, Japanese or both. Otherwise you’re just going to end up getting really frustrated.

Don’t give up though!

Gotta. love that quote.

Another question, though (I just came up with this): total immersion, right. But… this blog is in English. Does this mean that if one wants to learn Japanese, he should stop reading this blog as well?

Otherwise, if you keep it like: “Well, maybe just this blog” you begin thinking “Maybe this one too” and “One more exception” and you wound up reading all English stuff.

Or is this not so?

I have to work in an English environment, but I try as much as possible to stay in Japanese outside of it. It’s a tough road, but I keep in mind I’ll be there eventually

When I was in high school, our Spanish class had a group of Mexican students come to stay with our families for a week. Two girls were specifically assigned to stay at our house because their English was very poor, and my Spanish ability was near the top of my class (though still not very good by real-world standards).

What ended up happening was that they spent most of their time with their friends at the group activities their teachers had planned (all of which was conducted in Spanish), and speaking Spanish with each other in the spare bedroom they were staying in, and speaking Spanish at the dinner table, and watching Telemundo, and surfing Spanish-language websites, and listening to Spanish-language music, and so on. When they went out shopping, they brought a friend who spoke English and had her translate. So almost nothing they did during that week was in English, and most of it wasn’t even culturally American. And so, of course, they returned home with no discernible improvement in English proficiency to show for the experience.

Now, I know that a week is a pretty short time in the overall language-acquisition timescale, but even a week of All English All The Time would probably have done them some good. Or even Some English Some Of The Time. What they did was very close to No English, Ever, Period. And if I take Khatz and several others at their word (having never been an immigrant myself), this is exactly what a lot of expats do to themselves, with the unintended result that the earnest adult language learner is discouraged because, at first blush, it makes it look like immersion doesn’t work and/or adults can’t learn.