Momoko’s Musings: Finding Good Things in the Strangest Places
So I was feeling stuck lately—worrying about how inadequate I am at speaking in everyday conversations, not sure how to say something in different ways or different degrees of politeness, and frustrated that the materials I have (e.g. manga, magazines, even bilingual Japanese/English books) seem a bit too advanced for my level right now. How to bridge that gap between beginner and intermediate!?
Then I stumbled upon something that’s perfect for me in the most unlikely of places. 中国語に夢中 (“Engrossed in Chinese”) is a beginner book for Japanese learners of Chinese made up of simple dialogues and accompanying cartoons. It ended up in our home because Khatzumoto is learning Chinese right now (laddering up from Japanese). I, on the other hand, am using it in the opposite way that its authors intended: as a way to learn Japanese! My Chinese is intermediate level, so I can use the Chinese part to check my understanding of the Japanese. It’s a fun alternative to English translations.
Oddly, I find it to be an ideal tool for learning Japanese conversation. First of all, since it’s a book for beginners of Chinese, the Japanese translations reflect the simplicity of the Chinese dialogues. In addition, because of some accident in format, there are two Japanese translations of the same Chinese dialogue—one that’s more colloquial (in the cartoon version) and one that’s more polite (in the text-only version). I guess cartoons (where the visual humor has more of an impact) lend themselves more to slang while pure text tends to be more formal.
This coincidence is fabulous for me! For each piece of dialogue, I have two examples of how to say the same thing. Score! Because of the comic format, I also get a more gradual introduction to humor in Japanese. I mean, sometimes the humor is a bit flat (as textbook material can often be) or I still don’t get it, but it’s definitely good training for recognizing and judging comedy in another language. In addition, there are short articles on aspects of Chinese culture at the end of each dialogue. The writing here is more formal and uses longer sentences and more advanced vocabulary than the dialogue, so it could help me prepare to read Japanese books after I finish the dialogue. And when I’ve mastered Japanese (*sigh* hopefully that day isn’t too far away) I can go back and use this book to beef up my Chinese.
Yes, that’s right. Japanese materials for learning other languages can be just as valuable for learning Japanese itself. The programs on NHK (Japan’s public television station) to help viewers learn English, French, and Chinese are a perfect example of this. Often the presenters spend more time discussing (in Japanese) the grammar points or the meaning of sentences than they do speaking the target language! If you live in Japan, you can browse the language magazine section of your local bookstore and find magazines devoted to various languages (English is the most common). Inside you’ll find dialogues, celebrity interviews, newspaper articles, stories, and even recipes of varying levels of difficulty that are often accompanied by Japanese translations. NHK also publishes excellent, short (and cheap!) serialized books (a new one for each month) for learning other languages.
I don’t expect that this particular book will be of value to anyone else—it reflects my own current needs and my interest in China. But I hope the principle at least can carry over. Acquiring one language doesn’t mean you have to ignore other interests, areas of knowledge or countries that seem to be unrelated. Finally, on a more general level, never be afraid to try something new and unorthodox when other things aren’t working. As long as it has Japanese in it and it appeals to you, you’re going to learn something.
Read on:
Daniel said,
October 12, 2007 @ 3:35 am
I’ve thought about this before, except where the book would be teaching English (and not some other language; I only do English), because I feel like the Japanese in the book would be more natural. I can handle the English not being natural, as long as I get the meaning, but it is crucial for the Japanese to be natural. And unlike an English -> Japanese textbook, they won’t hold back on difficult Japanese grammar at the risk of sounding unnatural, because even Japanese kids can pretty much understand all the Japanese grammar you could throw at them.
I’m glad to hear you had success with this, I may look into it.
nacest said,
October 12, 2007 @ 6:29 am
Nice post, thank you Momoko!
On that matter, if anybody could suggest one or two specific books of this kind that you found helpful and well-made it’d be awesome. Only, it should be available on Amazon.co.jp (I live in Italy) and have English as the target language. There are so many out there and it’s impossible to tell which ones are good for this “reversed use” from the outside. Besides, I always go with recommendations when it comes to books
Thanks again and keep it up!
Christina said,
October 12, 2007 @ 8:59 am
I have some books for Chinese-speakers to learn English and they are just filled with example sentences.
What happened to Khatzumoto? He hasnt posted in a looooooong time. Im starting to have withdrawel symptoms.
Tracey H said,
November 19, 2007 @ 9:25 am
hey Khatz, very interesting. Just had a quick look since im at work. that remembering the kanji book looks useful. This will be a great site for my students to check out next year. thanks. keep up the good work. Trac
Amelia said,
March 3, 2009 @ 9:40 pm
It helps me! I’m also making the switch from Chinese to Japanese. Thanks for the tip–and just in time for my massive Amazon JP order.
I noticed Amazon CH also had a bunch of Chinese-language textbooks for Japanese…but since the goal is to get 100% Japanese, it might be better to do as you are.
already been said said,
June 11, 2009 @ 5:24 pm
This is actually a no-brainer for me. (I stumbled upon this page looking for better examples of degrees of politeness that might be comparable to Japanese.) I actually think that East Asian Language materials from other East Asian Languages are far more superior than ones translating directly to English. Japanese was my first EAL and though I have the fundamentals, the dearth of descent intermediate-advanced level materials left me on plateau. It was not until I started studying Korean and used Japanese dictionaries to study Korean that I began to understand some more advanced grammar patterns in Japanese. In addiction the example sentences are more natural. I think this is because linguists or whoever is writing these books are so careful to remain within the grammar rules they establish, trying to make EAL to English translation seem like an exact science, that they cease to make natural sounding sentences in either language. No, now I think it is best to think of all rules (in Korean and Japanese at least — my Chinese is still too green to make any claims about it) as grammar TENDENCIES, often subject the flow and context of the situation. If that much is understood, there’s less likelihood of getting frustrated when things don’t quickly add up like the textbooks tells us they should. The rest has already been said…