Comments on: Motivation For Cynical People http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/motivation-for-cynical-people How to learn Japanese. On your own, having fun and to fluency. Wed, 10 Mar 2010 09:59:39 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Chaak@fukuoka http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/motivation-for-cynical-people/comment-page-1#comment-21904 Chaak@fukuoka Mon, 06 Jul 2009 13:18:31 +0000 http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/?p=415#comment-21904 (i'll leave my comments in Cantonese) 我一路都有睇你呢個webpage﹐好buy你呢個學外語o既方法 估唔到你竟然連廣東話都搞得掂 除左覺得你好掂之外﹐只可以話﹐上堂﹐真係冇用。 你得閒o既時候將你學廣東話o既心得post上黎 等大家參考下啦 加油 chaak@fukuoka (i’ll leave my comments in Cantonese)

我一路都有睇你呢個webpage﹐好buy你呢個學外語o既方法
估唔到你竟然連廣東話都搞得掂
除左覺得你好掂之外﹐只可以話﹐上堂﹐真係冇用。

你得閒o既時候將你學廣東話o既心得post上黎 等大家參考下啦

加油

chaak@fukuoka

]]> By: Forrest http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/motivation-for-cynical-people/comment-page-1#comment-21820 Forrest Fri, 03 Jul 2009 23:49:20 +0000 http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/?p=415#comment-21820 Really do appreciate it when ya take the time to make these inspirational posts! :) I've only recently really kicked my learning into gear again. I've even cancelled my WoW account and started playing the japanese version of mabinogi. It is amazing how much I can understand while understanding so little. Also, I just pre-ordered Dragon Quest IX from Play-Asia off of your referral link. Hope you get your commission! Thanks again! Really do appreciate it when ya take the time to make these inspirational posts! :)

I’ve only recently really kicked my learning into gear again. I’ve even cancelled my WoW account and started playing the japanese version of mabinogi. It is amazing how much I can understand while understanding so little. Also, I just pre-ordered Dragon Quest IX from Play-Asia off of your referral link. Hope you get your commission!

Thanks again!

]]> By: Yaltafa http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/motivation-for-cynical-people/comment-page-1#comment-21782 Yaltafa Thu, 02 Jul 2009 13:03:42 +0000 http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/?p=415#comment-21782 Off topic I know but, I just finished RTK1 , I'm too happy ! Off topic I know but, I just finished RTK1 , I’m too happy !

]]> By: khatzumoto http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/motivation-for-cynical-people/comment-page-1#comment-21769 khatzumoto Thu, 02 Jul 2009 07:49:49 +0000 http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/?p=415#comment-21769 :D :D

]]> By: Tsuioku http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/motivation-for-cynical-people/comment-page-1#comment-21768 Tsuioku Thu, 02 Jul 2009 07:40:40 +0000 http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/?p=415#comment-21768 Just posting because I noted this: If you can’t feel passion [I hate this word], don’t. Just be curious instead. Just keep sowing instead. AJATT runs on wit, passion and your support! How're ya gonna get yourself out of this one, Khatz?! ;) Just posting because I noted this:

If you can’t feel passion [I hate this word], don’t. Just be curious instead. Just keep sowing instead.

AJATT runs on wit, passion and your support!

How’re ya gonna get yourself out of this one, Khatz?! ;)

]]> By: Caomei513 http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/motivation-for-cynical-people/comment-page-1#comment-21665 Caomei513 Mon, 29 Jun 2009 15:21:53 +0000 http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/?p=415#comment-21665 Khatz, Great article (again)... just the inspiration I was needing! Anyway, Congratz on your Cantonese progress.. but I have a question about that: How many items to you have in your Canto SRS right now? Khatz,

Great article (again)… just the inspiration I was needing! Anyway, Congratz on your Cantonese progress.. but I have a question about that: How many items to you have in your Canto SRS right now?

]]> By: きのこ http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/motivation-for-cynical-people/comment-page-1#comment-21663 きのこ Mon, 29 Jun 2009 15:15:47 +0000 http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/?p=415#comment-21663 A year and a half to get to that point, huh? Personally I'm more interested in finding out how he plans to upgrade his output from the youngling level. That's the problem I'm having right now. A year and a half to get to that point, huh?

Personally I’m more interested in finding out how he plans to upgrade his output from the youngling level. That’s the problem I’m having right now.

]]> By: Jaybot7 http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/motivation-for-cynical-people/comment-page-1#comment-21625 Jaybot7 Sun, 28 Jun 2009 22:52:26 +0000 http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/?p=415#comment-21625 Great post, I was just about to think about possibly considering the chance of maybe taking a break for awhile. I always come here for a quick booster :) I've been following AJATT for close to a year now, and Khatz's method is really the only thing that works. I can't even call it Khatz method (Supermemo, some German dude, those Polish guys, etc) but for simplification, I do. I get a lot of people astounded by how well my Japanese has become (even though, honestly, I think it still sucks) in such a short time. The only reason I can attribute it to is Heisig, SRS, ドラえもん,マリオ君、コナン、a bunch of other 漫画、and this is possibly the 5000th time I've heard 魔女の宅急便 ;) Luckily I like the movie :) So once again, Thanks Khatz! Great post, I was just about to think about possibly considering the chance of maybe taking a break for awhile. I always come here for a quick booster :)

I’ve been following AJATT for close to a year now, and Khatz’s method is really the only thing that works. I can’t even call it Khatz method (Supermemo, some German dude, those Polish guys, etc) but for simplification, I do.

I get a lot of people astounded by how well my Japanese has become (even though, honestly, I think it still sucks) in such a short time. The only reason I can attribute it to is Heisig, SRS, ドラえもん,マリオ君、コナン、a bunch of other 漫画、and this is possibly the 5000th time I’ve heard 魔女の宅急便 ;) Luckily I like the movie :)

So once again, Thanks Khatz!

]]> By: Terence http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/motivation-for-cynical-people/comment-page-1#comment-21565 Terence Sun, 28 Jun 2009 01:57:28 +0000 http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/?p=415#comment-21565 YES!!!!!!!!!!!!! However little it was, you gave us a Chinese update!!!!! hahaha Although I'm learning Japanese its good to hear that after all this time you've gotten to the point of "I CAN WATCH AND UNDERSTAND VIRTUALLY ANYTHING ON HONG KONG TV NOW !(T+19 months) Violent triad movies, weird accents, regular TV news, parody news, phone prank shows, Korean-made documentaries about the history of noodles…bring it.". It gives hope to us all haha Great post! YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!

However little it was, you gave us a Chinese update!!!!! hahaha

Although I’m learning Japanese its good to hear that after all this time you’ve gotten to the point of “I CAN WATCH AND UNDERSTAND VIRTUALLY ANYTHING ON HONG KONG TV NOW !(T+19 months) Violent triad movies, weird accents, regular TV news, parody news, phone prank shows, Korean-made documentaries about the history of noodles…bring it.”. It gives hope to us all haha

Great post!

]]> By: テツ http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/motivation-for-cynical-people/comment-page-1#comment-21505 テツ Fri, 26 Jun 2009 21:38:48 +0000 http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/?p=415#comment-21505 @Rachel Anything that is FUNBUN (For Natives by Natives) is ideal! Mix and match as you feel, further by keeping it fun and FUNBUN whether you realise it or not, you'll be on inevitable track to fluency. The Less time in English worrying about (the relevance/realism/hygienic properties) of your inputs = More time you can spend immersed. Keep it Funbuned!Good luck. @Rachel
Anything that is FUNBUN (For Natives by Natives) is ideal! Mix and match as you feel, further by keeping it fun and FUNBUN whether you realise it or not, you’ll be on inevitable track to fluency.
The Less time in English worrying about (the relevance/realism/hygienic properties) of your inputs = More time you can spend immersed.
Keep it Funbuned!Good luck.

]]> By: Fergal Daly http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/motivation-for-cynical-people/comment-page-1#comment-21501 Fergal Daly Fri, 26 Jun 2009 19:23:09 +0000 http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/?p=415#comment-21501 Tyler, the article certainly isn't supposed to contradict Khatz's method. I posted it because of Khatz's remark on Tony Robins talking about PMA - 'your knee-jerk reaction might be to go “yeah, right”, roll your eyes rather far back into your head'. The article gives an indicatoin that if that's your reaction then you should probably forget about PMA, it will only make you feel worse (the study wasn't about cynicism but about self-esteem, although the explanation would seem to apply to cynics too). This post is perfectly compatible with the article. The Khatz method does not require a PMA (although it doesn't hurt I suppose). It doesn't require you to think that you can become someone who can learn Japanese - to tell yourself something you don't believe. The method says that everyone can learn Japanese and that all it takes is application of the technique is sufficient quantities. You don't have to believe in yourself, just in Khatzumoto :) Tyler,

the article certainly isn’t supposed to contradict Khatz’s method. I posted it because of Khatz’s remark on Tony Robins talking about PMA – ‘your knee-jerk reaction might be to go “yeah, right”, roll your eyes rather far back into your head’. The article gives an indicatoin that if that’s your reaction then you should probably forget about PMA, it will only make you feel worse (the study wasn’t about cynicism but about self-esteem, although the explanation would seem to apply to cynics too).

This post is perfectly compatible with the article. The Khatz method does not require a PMA (although it doesn’t hurt I suppose). It doesn’t require you to think that you can become someone who can learn Japanese – to tell yourself something you don’t believe. The method says that everyone can learn Japanese and that all it takes is application of the technique is sufficient quantities. You don’t have to believe in yourself, just in Khatzumoto :)

]]> By: Rachel http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/motivation-for-cynical-people/comment-page-1#comment-21451 Rachel Thu, 25 Jun 2009 12:21:33 +0000 http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/?p=415#comment-21451 Great article! I have a quick question. I'm learning French and I have been mostly watching children's shows to get my input. It's encouraging because I can understand more than on radio or movies, but will that get in the way of my learning "real" French? You know, since it's aimed at young children; I know that children's shows in English sound slower and simpler. Was there ever a stage where you watched TV for young children? Thank you! :) Great article! I have a quick question. I’m learning French and I have been mostly watching children’s shows to get my input. It’s encouraging because I can understand more than on radio or movies, but will that get in the way of my learning “real” French? You know, since it’s aimed at young children; I know that children’s shows in English sound slower and simpler. Was there ever a stage where you watched TV for young children?

Thank you! :)

]]> By: HiddenSincerity http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/motivation-for-cynical-people/comment-page-1#comment-21449 HiddenSincerity Thu, 25 Jun 2009 09:51:04 +0000 http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/?p=415#comment-21449 Tommy, you're right. It does take a long time between comprehension and production (ie input and output) in most cases (another reason why most classes suck). In fact, in studies on children learning their first language, after the child had produced thier first 50 words (which tend to take a little longer), it was on average FIVE months between the child's comprehension of a word in context before they could produce that word in at least one context. FIVE months. Just think about that, supposing (as i do) that child and adult acquisition are somewhat releated - on average SRS items you add today won't be able to be produced until November 25th. As you said it is both a long time but much shorter than never. And it certainly makes me feel better when I think about all the stuff I still can't do. :D Tommy, you’re right. It does take a long time between comprehension and production (ie input and output) in most cases (another reason why most classes suck).

In fact, in studies on children learning their first language, after the child had produced thier first 50 words (which tend to take a little longer), it was on average FIVE months between the child’s comprehension of a word in context before they could produce that word in at least one context. FIVE months. Just think about that, supposing (as i do) that child and adult acquisition are somewhat releated – on average SRS items you add today won’t be able to be produced until November 25th. As you said it is both a long time but much shorter than never. And it certainly makes me feel better when I think about all the stuff I still can’t do. :D

]]> By: Tommy Newbhall http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/motivation-for-cynical-people/comment-page-1#comment-21430 Tommy Newbhall Thu, 25 Jun 2009 02:35:36 +0000 http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/?p=415#comment-21430 I was mulling this post over last night in my head, and its relationship to a previous post, the "sorrow of the intermediate learner," and had a realization. I guess one thing I had assumed about the whole input/SRS/reading/listening process was the relation between input and output. I understood that input was first output was second, but <b>I never understood how far down the line input came after output.</b> I assumed that it went like this: you see or hear a word, and then see it in a context you can pretty much understand. Then you look that word in a Japanese dictionary, and the definition (actually, "description" might be a better word for dictionary entries, but that's a different topic altogether) and with few more comprehensible example sentences, you get a clearer picture of the meaning and usage. Add those example sentences to the SRS, get them buried deep in your head, and <i>then, they're ready to use.</i> However, I wasn't experiencing this, and assumed that there was something wrong. What I didn't realize, as this post points out, is that from the "getting them buried deep" to the "ready to use" point is just as Khatzumoto describes, an incubation period, time for the seeds to grow. I'm not really sure what is going, mentally at this point, but it also seems like some seeds (i.e. words and phrases) take longer to grow than others, and most take longer than I think they will... This happened to me the other day, when without prompting myself, without trying, a bit of a sentence ”切なるお願い”　せつ・なる　お・ねが・い　that I had in my SRS just came out in conversation, completely out of the blue. I went back later and had a look at the item and realized that it was part of an item I added to my srs <b>over three months ago</b> but I am pretty confident that I looked up the word exclusively using a Japanese dictionary, and that I used the phrase correctly. I guess while three months seems like a long time to wait for a single phrase, and output results are just a trickle now, my guess is that a while down the line they'll probably grow and grow until output becomes a deluge. On top of that, in the long run, three months isn't very long to wait at all, and it is certainly a whole lot shorter than "never" which is when I would have produced that sentence if I had not entered it into the SRS into the first place. fwiw, Tommy I was mulling this post over last night in my head, and its relationship to a previous post, the “sorrow of the intermediate learner,” and had a realization. I guess one thing I had assumed about the whole input/SRS/reading/listening process was the relation between input and output. I understood that input was first output was second, but I never understood how far down the line input came after output. I assumed that it went like this: you see or hear a word, and then see it in a context you can pretty much understand. Then you look that word in a Japanese dictionary, and the definition (actually, “description” might be a better word for dictionary entries, but that’s a different topic altogether) and with few more comprehensible example sentences, you get a clearer picture of the meaning and usage. Add those example sentences to the SRS, get them buried deep in your head, and then, they’re ready to use. However, I wasn’t experiencing this, and assumed that there was something wrong. What I didn’t realize, as this post points out, is that from the “getting them buried deep” to the “ready to use” point is just as Khatzumoto describes, an incubation period, time for the seeds to grow. I’m not really sure what is going, mentally at this point, but it also seems like some seeds (i.e. words and phrases) take longer to grow than others, and most take longer than I think they will…

This happened to me the other day, when without prompting myself, without trying, a bit of a sentence ”切なるお願い”　せつ・なる　お・ねが・い　that I had in my SRS just came out in conversation, completely out of the blue. I went back later and had a look at the item and realized that it was part of an item I added to my srs over three months ago but I am pretty confident that I looked up the word exclusively using a Japanese dictionary, and that I used the phrase correctly. I guess while three months seems like a long time to wait for a single phrase, and output results are just a trickle now, my guess is that a while down the line they’ll probably grow and grow until output becomes a deluge. On top of that, in the long run, three months isn’t very long to wait at all, and it is certainly a whole lot shorter than “never” which is when I would have produced that sentence if I had not entered it into the SRS into the first place.

fwiw,
Tommy

]]> By: Daniel http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/motivation-for-cynical-people/comment-page-1#comment-21428 Daniel Wed, 24 Jun 2009 21:44:15 +0000 http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/?p=415#comment-21428 As for kanji motivation, I've always thought about it like this: Sure, I may only know a rough approximation of the meanings of [insert number here] kanji, but that's a hell of a lot better than not knowing a rough approximation of [insert number here], which I would be without Heisig, and only knowing [insert number here] is a necessary step to knowing 2,042, which I'm only getting closer to. As for kanji motivation, I’ve always thought about it like this: Sure, I may only know a rough approximation of the meanings of [insert number here] kanji, but that’s a hell of a lot better than not knowing a rough approximation of [insert number here], which I would be without Heisig, and only knowing [insert number here] is a necessary step to knowing 2,042, which I’m only getting closer to.

]]> By: Tyler http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/motivation-for-cynical-people/comment-page-1#comment-21419 Tyler Wed, 24 Jun 2009 16:52:47 +0000 http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/?p=415#comment-21419 I am a listening padawan.. I am a listening padawan..

]]> By: Chiro-kun http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/motivation-for-cynical-people/comment-page-1#comment-21414 Chiro-kun Wed, 24 Jun 2009 15:59:05 +0000 http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/?p=415#comment-21414 I never really cared about being an output Jedi considering I never had any imminent plans of moving to Japan. But becoming an input Jedi itself is knocking my heart about my ribcage. The only thing I can do at native speed is read video game dialogue and my listening sucks arse. ええ分かってる....愚痴ってる場合じゃねぇってば！ I never really cared about being an output Jedi considering I never had any imminent plans of moving to Japan. But becoming an input Jedi itself is knocking my heart about my ribcage. The only thing I can do at native speed is read video game dialogue and my listening sucks arse.

ええ分かってる….愚痴ってる場合じゃねぇってば！

]]> By: nacest http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/motivation-for-cynical-people/comment-page-1#comment-21393 nacest Wed, 24 Jun 2009 09:53:48 +0000 http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/?p=415#comment-21393 I hereby abandon my final objective of becoming fluent in Japanese. Instead, my new goal is to keep doing stuff in Japanese like I'm doing now, whatever the results are. It would be cool if I could learn Japanese in the process, though :P I hereby abandon my final objective of becoming fluent in Japanese.
Instead, my new goal is to keep doing stuff in Japanese like I’m doing now, whatever the results are.
It would be cool if I could learn Japanese in the process, though :P

]]> By: james http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/motivation-for-cynical-people/comment-page-1#comment-21392 james Wed, 24 Jun 2009 09:35:53 +0000 http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/?p=415#comment-21392 This line really hit home for me In short, my input is almost a Jedi, though my output be at youngling level. Thats how I totally feel and at times, it's disheartnening... but I know my time to be an output jedi is coming... This line really hit home for me

In short, my input is almost a Jedi, though my output be at youngling level.

Thats how I totally feel and at times, it’s disheartnening… but I know my time to be an output jedi is coming…

]]> By: km http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/motivation-for-cynical-people/comment-page-1#comment-21382 km Wed, 24 Jun 2009 06:14:33 +0000 http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/?p=415#comment-21382 "Great article about being action-oriented (as opposed to waiting-around-for-results oriented). The truth is that every time you spend thinking or worrying about results takes away time that you could be using to get them." Harrison, you are THE MAN! (or woman?) You are ALL THAT! Thanks for a life-affirming kick in the pants (seriously). Never had a problem with expression emotion or feeling passion about learning Japanese. I burn with them day and night, sometimes to my own dismay (passion is close to desire which hurts sometimes). But either way I still sit around waiting for results too much. “Great article about being action-oriented (as opposed to waiting-around-for-results oriented). The truth is that every time you spend thinking or worrying about results takes away time that you could be using to get them.”

Harrison, you are THE MAN! (or woman?) You are ALL THAT!

Thanks for a life-affirming kick in the pants (seriously).

Never had a problem with expression emotion or feeling passion about learning Japanese. I burn with them day and night, sometimes to my own dismay (passion is close to desire which hurts sometimes). But either way I still sit around waiting for results too much.

]]>