Comments on: The Eternal Sorrow of the Intermediate Learner: “Are We There Yet?” Syndrome http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/the-eternal-sorrow-of-the-intermediate-learner-%e2%80%9care-we-there-yet%e2%80%9d-syndrome You don't learn a language, you get used to it. Wed, 08 Feb 2012 18:37:39 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: A bright new morning, a new challenge :-) « Acquiring Hebrew http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/the-eternal-sorrow-of-the-intermediate-learner-%e2%80%9care-we-there-yet%e2%80%9d-syndrome#comment-169055 A bright new morning, a new challenge :-) « Acquiring Hebrew Thu, 01 Dec 2011 10:55:15 +0000 http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/?p=394#comment-169055 [...] been studying Hebrew for about eight months and am stuck somewhere in the intermediate stage. Sometime’s I’m happy how far I’ve come and feel I can understand and communicate [...] [...] been studying Hebrew for about eight months and am stuck somewhere in the intermediate stage. Sometime’s I’m happy how far I’ve come and feel I can understand and communicate [...]

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

]]> By: Chagami http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/the-eternal-sorrow-of-the-intermediate-learner-%e2%80%9care-we-there-yet%e2%80%9d-syndrome#comment-160120 Chagami Wed, 16 Nov 2011 15:46:59 +0000 http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/?p=394#comment-160120 This is one of my favourite AJATT articles, and it seemed only fitting to post my new findings here. I don't think I've been going through a full blown "Are we there yet" phase, but I have been thinking more about the future than the present lately. Either way, what I realized was that thinking, "I'm at x stage of the journey" is forever placing where I *should* be in the future, and leaves me in a state of uncompleted-ness. What I've found is, the better way to reflect on the situation is simply thinking, "being able to understand and comprehend x amount; it's my current way of life." This more present-centric way of thinking seems like a more uplifting way to think about things for me. After all, we don't go around saying. "yeah, I'm at x stage of life" - we generally just think in the now. I don't know, this is probably a twist on something that's already been covered, but I thought I'd put it out there in case it helped anyone.

This is one of my favourite AJATT articles, and it seemed only fitting to post my new findings here.

I don’t think I’ve been going through a full blown “Are we there yet” phase, but I have been thinking more about the future than the present lately. Either way, what I realized was that thinking, “I’m at x stage of the journey” is forever placing where I *should* be in the future, and leaves me in a state of uncompleted-ness.

What I’ve found is, the better way to reflect on the situation is simply thinking, “being able to understand and comprehend x amount; it’s my current way of life.” This more present-centric way of thinking seems like a more uplifting way to think about things for me. After all, we don’t go around saying. “yeah, I’m at x stage of life” – we generally just think in the now.

I don’t know, this is probably a twist on something that’s already been covered, but I thought I’d put it out there in case it helped anyone.

Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0

]]> By: Inching Along… | MidoriTea http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/the-eternal-sorrow-of-the-intermediate-learner-%e2%80%9care-we-there-yet%e2%80%9d-syndrome#comment-154562 Inching Along… | MidoriTea Sun, 06 Nov 2011 22:29:37 +0000 http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/?p=394#comment-154562 [...] guess this is what Khatzumoto refers to as the “Are We There Yet?” Syndrome, or the “Eternal Sorrow of the Intermediate Learner”–that’s a catchy phrase [...] [...] guess this is what Khatzumoto refers to as the “Are We There Yet?” Syndrome, or the “Eternal Sorrow of the Intermediate Learner”–that’s a catchy phrase [...]

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

]]> By: SilverSpoon BigBoi: You Just Need A Framework That Works. You Just Need Some Direction. | AJATT | All Japanese All The Time http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/the-eternal-sorrow-of-the-intermediate-learner-%e2%80%9care-we-there-yet%e2%80%9d-syndrome#comment-141057 SilverSpoon BigBoi: You Just Need A Framework That Works. You Just Need Some Direction. | AJATT | All Japanese All The Time Wed, 05 Oct 2011 03:33:41 +0000 http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/?p=394#comment-141057 [...] (in)famous intermediate slump – the one where people fall off the wagon because they can’t feel themselves moving [...] [...] (in)famous intermediate slump – the one where people fall off the wagon because they can’t feel themselves moving [...]

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

]]> By: Plane Timeboxing & Timeframe Workboxing « SomeJapaneseAllTimeAround http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/the-eternal-sorrow-of-the-intermediate-learner-%e2%80%9care-we-there-yet%e2%80%9d-syndrome#comment-132095 Plane Timeboxing & Timeframe Workboxing « SomeJapaneseAllTimeAround Tue, 06 Sep 2011 15:52:23 +0000 http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/?p=394#comment-132095 [...] reading AJATT’s Timeboxing Triple Trilogy (TTT/3t xD) and came up with two new variations: Plane Timeboxing and Timeframe Workboxing (could be Workframe Timeboxing, but this way sounds cooler). [...] [...] reading AJATT’s Timeboxing Triple Trilogy (TTT/3t xD) and came up with two new variations: Plane Timeboxing and Timeframe Workboxing (could be Workframe Timeboxing, but this way sounds cooler). [...]

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

]]> By: Miss Language Learning http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/the-eternal-sorrow-of-the-intermediate-learner-%e2%80%9care-we-there-yet%e2%80%9d-syndrome#comment-128936 Miss Language Learning Fri, 26 Aug 2011 01:15:45 +0000 http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/?p=394#comment-128936 Intermediate students of any language hit a plateau at some point. As long as you keep on studying and listening (listening is extremely important), you'll be fine. Intermediate students of any language hit a plateau at some point. As long as you keep on studying and listening (listening is extremely important), you’ll be fine.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

]]> By: Areckx http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/the-eternal-sorrow-of-the-intermediate-learner-%e2%80%9care-we-there-yet%e2%80%9d-syndrome#comment-128887 Areckx Thu, 25 Aug 2011 22:21:58 +0000 http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/?p=394#comment-128887 I actually disagree with downloading can be boring. I have found some very useful websites and references while looking for things, so that it becomes easier later.   Use that as a metaphor if you wish... I actually disagree with downloading can be boring. I have found some very useful websites and references while looking for things, so that it becomes easier later.
 
Use that as a metaphor if you wish…

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

]]> By: Special Announcement: SilverSpoon BigBoi — The SilverSpoon for Post-RTKers | AJATT | All Japanese All The Time http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/the-eternal-sorrow-of-the-intermediate-learner-%e2%80%9care-we-there-yet%e2%80%9d-syndrome#comment-128257 Special Announcement: SilverSpoon BigBoi — The SilverSpoon for Post-RTKers | AJATT | All Japanese All The Time Wed, 24 Aug 2011 03:24:00 +0000 http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/?p=394#comment-128257 [...] (in)famous intermediate slump – the one where people fall off the wagon because they can’t feel themselves moving [...] [...] (in)famous intermediate slump – the one where people fall off the wagon because they can’t feel themselves moving [...]

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

]]> By: Dax http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/the-eternal-sorrow-of-the-intermediate-learner-%e2%80%9care-we-there-yet%e2%80%9d-syndrome#comment-85983 Dax Wed, 16 Mar 2011 13:22:25 +0000 http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/?p=394#comment-85983 Thank you Khatzumoto for spreading the positive vibe. I think that people who have any kind of higher formal education tend to over dramatize language learning process. They would like to cram a grammar , memorize 5000 words and that's it. Now let's speak!!! Wait, no, something is not working, ok I MUST learn another 5000 words and revise the grammar, that is like 50 words per day , another 3 months!!! I suck, I am going to kill my self. In reality, language learning is more process than a chore with the beginning and the end. Also , some people don't get that one can rarely go to job, study for school, phd or whatever, go to gym , hang out, make a business and travel at the same time! You must be focused in a funny way. Like AJATT, you still have a life and you are enjoying it but you are making progress, far better progress compared to "serious learning" process where you look like a retard , always feel under the pressure and compare with others. To conclude , keep learning and it is not possible to stay on the same level. Thank you Khatzumoto for spreading the positive vibe.
I think that people who have any kind of higher formal education tend to over dramatize language learning process. They would like to cram a grammar , memorize 5000 words and that’s it. Now let’s speak!!! Wait, no, something is not working, ok I MUST learn another 5000 words and revise the grammar, that is like 50 words per day , another 3 months!!! I suck, I am going to kill my self.

In reality, language learning is more process than a chore with the beginning and the end. Also , some people don’t get that one can rarely go to job, study for school, phd or whatever, go to gym , hang out, make a business and travel at the same time! You must be focused in a funny way. Like AJATT, you still have a life and you are enjoying it but you are making progress, far better progress compared to “serious learning” process where you look like a ****** , always feel under the pressure and compare with others.

To conclude , keep learning and it is not possible to stay on the same level.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

]]> By: doviende http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/the-eternal-sorrow-of-the-intermediate-learner-%e2%80%9care-we-there-yet%e2%80%9d-syndrome#comment-76226 doviende Mon, 07 Feb 2011 11:32:33 +0000 http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/?p=394#comment-76226 I must have read this before, but it's great reading it again. I'm at exactly this stage in Dutch right now, and having those same thoughts like "alright already, when am I going to stop sucking?". The thing is, I already have my own evidence because I taught myself fluent German using something "AJATT-like", and German is reeeally close to Dutch. So why does my brain insist on telling me that I suck at Dutch and I'm never going to get there, when I've already proven that it works in nearly identical circumstances? I guess that's just the power of your perception during the intermediate stage that you're not really going that fast, even if you are. Fly a hundred flights, and the take-off will still seem more exciting than the middle. I guess this also holds some advice for those new to language acquisition: even the "experienced" people feel this way when they're partway through a language. Focus on the fun instead of the result, and it'll work itself out. I must have read this before, but it’s great reading it again.

I’m at exactly this stage in Dutch right now, and having those same thoughts like “alright already, when am I going to stop sucking?”. The thing is, I already have my own evidence because I taught myself fluent German using something “AJATT-like”, and German is reeeally close to Dutch.

So why does my brain insist on telling me that I suck at Dutch and I’m never going to get there, when I’ve already proven that it works in nearly identical circumstances? I guess that’s just the power of your perception during the intermediate stage that you’re not really going that fast, even if you are. Fly a hundred flights, and the take-off will still seem more exciting than the middle.

I guess this also holds some advice for those new to language acquisition: even the “experienced” people feel this way when they’re partway through a language. Focus on the fun instead of the result, and it’ll work itself out.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

]]> By: simon http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/the-eternal-sorrow-of-the-intermediate-learner-%e2%80%9care-we-there-yet%e2%80%9d-syndrome#comment-76211 simon Mon, 07 Feb 2011 09:21:52 +0000 http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/?p=394#comment-76211 Dude, this is such an awesome article you wrote. It applies to being an artist so well. Your website is a real inspiration thanks! Dude, this is such an awesome article you wrote. It applies to being an artist so well. Your website is a real inspiration

thanks!

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

]]> By: Bucolic Wisdom, Or Stop Slagging Seeds, Silly City Slickers! | All Japanese All The Time Dot Com: How to learn Japanese. On your own, having fun and to fluency. http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/the-eternal-sorrow-of-the-intermediate-learner-%e2%80%9care-we-there-yet%e2%80%9d-syndrome#comment-49410 Bucolic Wisdom, Or Stop Slagging Seeds, Silly City Slickers! | All Japanese All The Time Dot Com: How to learn Japanese. On your own, having fun and to fluency. Wed, 21 Jul 2010 18:16:06 +0000 http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/?p=394#comment-49410 [...] it again: all she has to do is do her part. She’ll till the field and never once complain that “I’ve been tilling for 3 weeks and nothing has happened”, because she understands that things have their season. She understands that things grow and mature [...] [...] it again: all she has to do is do her part. She’ll till the field and never once complain that “I’ve been tilling for 3 weeks and nothing has happened”, because she understands that things have their season. She understands that things grow and mature [...]

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

]]> By: Drewskie http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/the-eternal-sorrow-of-the-intermediate-learner-%e2%80%9care-we-there-yet%e2%80%9d-syndrome#comment-41674 Drewskie Sun, 02 May 2010 00:00:04 +0000 http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/?p=394#comment-41674 It's amazing how relevant this article is to where I'm at right now. Just this week my Japanese project has started having this weird, not-quite-right feeling, and this article addressed it like I was the one who sent the e-mail. It’s amazing how relevant this article is to where I’m at right now. Just this week my Japanese project has started having this weird, not-quite-right feeling, and this article addressed it like I was the one who sent the e-mail.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

]]> By: Intermediate « 新記憶の片隅 http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/the-eternal-sorrow-of-the-intermediate-learner-%e2%80%9care-we-there-yet%e2%80%9d-syndrome#comment-35178 Intermediate « 新記憶の片隅 Tue, 09 Mar 2010 23:51:43 +0000 http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/?p=394#comment-35178 [...] 9, 2010 As a supplement to this entry I am to point out this entry from [...] [...] 9, 2010 As a supplement to this entry I am to point out this entry from [...]

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

]]> By: All Japanese All The Time Dot Com: How to learn Japanese. On your own, having fun and to fluency. » Language Is A Martial Art http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/the-eternal-sorrow-of-the-intermediate-learner-%e2%80%9care-we-there-yet%e2%80%9d-syndrome#comment-27845 All Japanese All The Time Dot Com: How to learn Japanese. On your own, having fun and to fluency. » Language Is A Martial Art Thu, 12 Nov 2009 18:28:35 +0000 http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/?p=394#comment-27845 [...] a language, and even if you’re just a beginner and it all seems impossible, or you’re an intermediate and it all seems interminable, or your advanced and it all seems (what does it seem like? unimprovable?)…You don’t [...] [...] a language, and even if you’re just a beginner and it all seems impossible, or you’re an intermediate and it all seems interminable, or your advanced and it all seems (what does it seem like? unimprovable?)…You don’t [...]

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

]]> By: AD http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/the-eternal-sorrow-of-the-intermediate-learner-%e2%80%9care-we-there-yet%e2%80%9d-syndrome#comment-27677 AD Tue, 10 Nov 2009 18:45:43 +0000 http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/?p=394#comment-27677 I believe that human growth is logarithmic and not linear, other than that, good post I believe that human growth is logarithmic and not linear, other than that, good post

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

]]> By: Narkth http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/the-eternal-sorrow-of-the-intermediate-learner-%e2%80%9care-we-there-yet%e2%80%9d-syndrome#comment-23572 Narkth Sun, 09 Aug 2009 13:55:18 +0000 http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/?p=394#comment-23572 I'm sitting here, eating an early supper, chopsticks sticks in hand, listening to some godawful JPop, when I read... ...lillefluff's comment. O.O. Thanks for that. You definitely sound like a native speaker. You have just compounded my belief that I can achieve fluency in a reasonable amount of time. I especially like that you have become a grammar nazi. I think it would be amazing to get the point where I correct native Japanese speakers ^^ I’m sitting here, eating an early supper, chopsticks sticks in hand, listening to some godawful JPop, when I read…

…lillefluff’s comment. O.O. Thanks for that. You definitely sound like a native speaker. You have just compounded my belief that I can achieve fluency in a reasonable amount of time.

I especially like that you have become a grammar nazi. I think it would be amazing to get the point where I correct native Japanese speakers ^^

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

]]> By: All Japanese All The Time Dot Com: How to learn Japanese. On your own, having fun and to fluency. » Motivation For Cynical People http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/the-eternal-sorrow-of-the-intermediate-learner-%e2%80%9care-we-there-yet%e2%80%9d-syndrome#comment-21362 All Japanese All The Time Dot Com: How to learn Japanese. On your own, having fun and to fluency. » Motivation For Cynical People Tue, 23 Jun 2009 19:48:58 +0000 http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/?p=394#comment-21362 [...] always watching, always trying to get the phone number, always trying to get to second base, always asking Mummy if you’re there yet. Sitting by the door checking the clock every five seconds is not going to make the FedEx lady [...] [...] always watching, always trying to get the phone number, always trying to get to second base, always asking Mummy if you’re there yet. Sitting by the door checking the clock every five seconds is not going to make the FedEx lady [...]

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

]]> By: Ernesto http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/the-eternal-sorrow-of-the-intermediate-learner-%e2%80%9care-we-there-yet%e2%80%9d-syndrome#comment-20462 Ernesto Thu, 28 May 2009 03:26:36 +0000 http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/?p=394#comment-20462 @lillefluff ...you're kidding! Your English is superb! Congrats on becoming fluent. I'm still in the middle stages of Japanese, but I'll keep going nonetheless. @lillefluff

…you’re kidding! Your English is superb! Congrats on becoming fluent. I’m still in the middle stages of Japanese, but I’ll keep going nonetheless.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

]]> By: lillefluff http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/the-eternal-sorrow-of-the-intermediate-learner-%e2%80%9care-we-there-yet%e2%80%9d-syndrome#comment-20459 lillefluff Thu, 28 May 2009 01:11:54 +0000 http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/?p=394#comment-20459 A late additional comment from a person who has successfully learned one language in the past: One of the biggest motivations for me is that I know that eventually I will get to a point where one gets almost the same kind of kick out of learning as in the beginning. To me, one of the most fun stages of language learning is the point where you have reached fluency, but keep working on attaining an even higher level of fluency. I know it's possible to get there, because I've done it before, and I know I'm well on my way there with Japanese - even when it feels like I'm making no progress at all. To all you people who are struggling in the middle, I just want to repeat what has already been said: keep going. I spent what feels like a small eternity in this stage where I could "kind of" understand English and got the gist of a book, song etc, but didn't quite catch the nuances and details, but I kept on reading English books nonetheless, and gradually things got more clear. Now I'm getting a kick out of learning (and using!) "strange" advanced vocabulary and being a proud Grammar Nazi in a language other than the one I was born speaking, and it feels awesome. The same thing -will- happen to you and me with Japanese, too. A late additional comment from a person who has successfully learned one language in the past: One of the biggest motivations for me is that I know that eventually I will get to a point where one gets almost the same kind of kick out of learning as in the beginning. To me, one of the most fun stages of language learning is the point where you have reached fluency, but keep working on attaining an even higher level of fluency. I know it’s possible to get there, because I’ve done it before, and I know I’m well on my way there with Japanese – even when it feels like I’m making no progress at all.

To all you people who are struggling in the middle, I just want to repeat what has already been said: keep going. I spent what feels like a small eternity in this stage where I could “kind of” understand English and got the gist of a book, song etc, but didn’t quite catch the nuances and details, but I kept on reading English books nonetheless, and gradually things got more clear. Now I’m getting a kick out of learning (and using!) “strange” advanced vocabulary and being a proud Grammar Nazi in a language other than the one I was born speaking, and it feels awesome. The same thing -will- happen to you and me with Japanese, too.

Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

]]>