Cool article as ususal. I totally know where your coming from! Although, I do reckon that you don’t give Tokyoites enough credit though. I mean there is nothing cooler than being able to relax on the train with your fellow sardines, enjoying the aircon, and just be in your own little world, which is pretty much where people from Tokyo are most of the time in my experience. Also, they are pretty cool about things that I imagine that townies might be less inclined to let slide (you can pretty much be whatever you want to be here with no sterotyping, OMG what is she/he wearing!, etc., which is nifty too!). Finally, don’t forget the old one JET/ALT to one town situation that some gaijin get themselves into – I think sometimes being the star of the show can be pretty detrimental yo! (I’m talking about being the unofficial town idol with a similar lack of privacy and often just as many photos – with the whole expectation that you will be just like your fellow Japanese educator co-workers – moderately respectful closet alcholics [just kidding alchy thing]).

Well, laterz,

Jon.

For instance, while in Japan, I studied kendo. This was a club made up entirely of Japanese. I went for rank testing, and it was also an all-Japanese gig. During the testing, one of the judges, an older guy who had made a couple of cracks to/about me being a foreigner before we really got going, called for me by going, “Oi, gaijin!” Now, I was just going to let it go (despite the fact that my name was in big katakana right on my belt, which he could see), but before I had a chance to say or do anything, my coach jumped in and corrected the guy on the spot, saying, “Don’t call her ‘gaijin.’ Her name is ‘Faustian Slip.’” That wasn’t the first time I heard one Japanese correct another for using “gaijin,” and it wasn’t the last, but it sealed my opinion that there are definitely some negative connotations to the word, and people trying to pretend that it has no undertones of racism are (no offense) fooling themselves. Now, does that mean I went around flying into a rage every time I heard that word used? Of course not- like I said, it’s about context. But I never used it around my students (at the request of one of the Japanese teachers of English- again, why ask people to avoid using it if there’s nothing wrong with the word?) or used it myself in interactions with Japanese people, because I do think it promotes a xenophobic attitude towards foreigners, and I’d prefer it to fall out of use on its own.

To me, the word “gaijin” is somewhat analogous the Hebrew/Yiddish “goy.” Is the word inherently racist, by definition? No, but it can certainly be racist by connotation, and its frequent association with negative situations and characteristics isn’t exactly accidental. You see this far more in ultra-Orthodox/Hasidic circles, fortunately, but the fact that the word’s definition isn’t discriminatory doesn’t mean that the word hasn’t gradually adopted a negative connotation. Do I go on a verbal rampage any time I hear someone throwing around the word “goy” (which, being that I don’t live in a Yiddish-speaking community and attend a progressive synagogue, isn’t often)? No, but I won’t use it myself, and my friends know that I don’t care for it and so don’t use it around me. There are other, better and more accurate ways to refer to non-Jewish people when the need arises, just as there are better and more accurate ways to refer to non-Japanese.

Oh, and I have little use for Tokyo, but Osaka is made of win.

I suppose it also depends on personal preference.

I especially identified with the 外人 part as it drives me up the wall when foreigners act like Japanese people are flinging racial slurs at them on a daily basis. But overall it is in the nature of expat communities to complain, it’s not just japan.

Nevertheless after moving to the far East I’ve found that if you know the language (rule #2) and interact with the Japanese public at large as opposed to going to popular expat hangouts like Roppongi, the kinds of foreigners you run into are very different then what you come across on online message boards.

I also disagree with Roderik. Of course I identify as Japanese American, and/or Asian American! Not everyone in America has the exact same experience, thus you need to make distinctions to know what is being talked about.

I am in Japan right now, exploring my roots. My family speaks ZERO Japanese, and I was surprised to learn recently that my grandparents spoke it very well, even though while they were alive, I never ever heard them speak a word of it, except if you count saying “sushi” or some other food names. They after all were born here, and went through the the scary racism during WWII which made them not want to speak Japanese for fear of more racism than there already was. Anyways, I am experiencing what it’s like to be an actual foreigner here in Japan. When people thought I was a foreigner in America I was pretty annoyed, but now when people realize I am a foreigner here, and comment how good I am at chopsticks, it’s nice because I actually AM a foreigner this time!!!! Good times.

Anyways, just stumbled over your site, and I hope to learn Japanese during the year (or maybe more) I plan to stay here. Thanks!!!

Try to avoid using terms such as ‘Japanese-Americans’ , ‘Afro-Americans’, ‘Italian-Americans’ and ‘Native-Americans’ in the future. It is the usage of terms such as these that promote racial segregation and keep groups of people apart. If you are trying to make a point about the acceptance of other cultures into your own, just refer to everyone as Americans will you?

If you want it bad enough, it will happen. Look at yourself before you claim knowledge of others. Good discussion!

To put it bluntly, if Japanese people are not speaking Japanese with you, your Japanese sux. Straight up. I’m not trying to discourage anyone here, nor do I wish to gloat, but this is a rule I’ve learned through experience. And it was admitting the reason that Japanese people weren’t speaking Japanese with me was because my Japanese sucked is what drove me to make my Japanese…well, not suck anymore.

You’re gonna be speaking in whichever your most common strongest language is, period. Even with the types who really wanna learn English; I’ve got friends and aquiantences both who speak far better English than I speak Japanese. But I’ve asked them about it: it’s tiring. Speaking in your second language is tiring. Simple as that. They prefer to speak in Japanese with me, provided I can keep up. In fact, in those situations, people use exactly as much English as they perceive I need to keep up a natural conversation. And that lets me know exactly where my Japanese is. This is all following the pretty obvious rules of bilingualism.

Stop exempting Japan from this simple and obvious reality. If you are speaking in Japanese to a Japanese person and they’re responding in English, that’s a polite way of saying “your Japanese sux, buddy.” Japanese isn’t like some hobby of yours, some second language you’re learning in college; not if you’re living in Japan! People are going to be catching every little teeny tiny mistake you make; pronunciation, fluency, grammar, intonation, vocab…friggin’ everything! If those mistakes pile up too heavily in someones mind, they’re going to be seeking an easier way to communicate with you: English.

Ember also mentioned some great things…do things which have absolutely no relation to English, things you’re gonna need Japanese for. Hang out at the community center, go to the free classes, join some clubs, a sports team, anything! Any place or situation where you’re expected to speak Japanese is gonna be a 100% confidence boost that makes you forget all about that annoying jerk in the bar you met who was treating you like their own private English tutor when you were just trying to kick back, drink some beers, and have a good time.

khatz, just one URL for you. http://2ch.net/ .

Have fun. And remember, even the whiners have a small grain of truth in them.

and I agree. Making friends for the *purpose* of learning is generally not going to work. I think one of the biggest lies in modern foreign language teaching is the idea that you can be fluent in a language by just “going out there and talking to native speakers”. I disagree for 3 reasons. 1) (selfish reason) it doesn’t fit my personality. If I don’t chat up random strangers in my native language, how can I do it to strangers in a foreign language?? and 2) it places an incredible burden on people to just plop yourself next to another with the expectation of “OK, teach me how to speak now”. In my opinion and from what I’ve seen, those kind of situations are just tiring and frustrating for everyone involved. 3) you’re having a conversation….great, but if you don’t know anything besides a few greetings and phrasebook expressions, it’s gonna go nowhere fast. You neeeeed the listening, reading, sentences, vocabulary, ect. first….

So, I think we kind of agree on this

Ember
Agreed for the most part, but I would say that language exchanges aren’t a total waste….if your Japanese (or whatever language you’re learning) is at a good enough level to converse! Or, if you want to be Machiavellian and evil about it, pick a language exchange partner whose English is way below your Japanese >:D Like I said, the strongest language will dominate the conversation, which is why a lot of language exchanges are usually one sided towards English.

“people who complain about Japanese people speaking only English to them: Just how good is your Japanese?”

I’m not complaining. I’m just saying, it’s one logistic that you have to handle when learning Japanese. I can have conversation with a Japanese person and I usually do (with my students) and usually have a blast talking about the girlfriends they want to know so much about and how long my ***** hair is (damn those baseball boys) but they understand the level where I’m at, and speak at a level where it’s fun and humorous. The teachers who do want to talk to me talk in either butchered *** Japanese or butchered *** English. It’s really no value to me when they speak kantan nihongo to me as far as learning Japanese to fluency is concerned. But like I said, people are not SRS machines…and I appreciate them and their company all the same even if they are ruining my chances for Japanese fluency.

In any case, you are correct. People who are capable would speak to me in english if communicating in Japanese was too difficult. But I’ve also met my fair share of those who want to speak English to me because they want to practise. And perhaps this is not the point you’re trying to make, but to fault someone for their language skills and thus their inability to make friends with Japanese people who don’t speak english and thus fault them for not taking their Japanese to the next level.