Comments on: Tortoises and Hares

By: Don’t Have High Standards, Have Wide Standards | AJATT | All Japanese All The Time

Wed, 07 Dec 2011 15:00:50 +0000

[...] Have High Standards, Have Wide Standards December 7, 2011By khatzumotoLo! And Chagami sayeth: It doesn’t matter how many kanji you do a day/how many sentences you’re learning/how [...]

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By: Chagami

Chagami — Sat, 03 Dec 2011 17:43:44 +0000

When I first started to watch anime raw, I had this notion that I would be “ruining” a good plot line by not understanding most of it. But then I realized, what’s more important: absorbing the message of this anime, or becoming fluent? I thought the answer was obvious.

So relating back to your situation, what’s more important to you? Getting all your kanji down for your internship, or getting the kanji down correctly so you can continue to build and gain fluency?

Also, I wouldn’t worry about the differences in the 5th and 6th edition right now. If this issue is slowing you down to the extent where you actually aren’t doing kanji, then just don’t worry about the the extra kanji in the 6th edition. Just skip them for now, and just check them out at the end with the 5th edition’s supplemental pdf (which is legit and free).

It doesn’t matter how many kanji you do a day/how many sentences you’re learning/how much vocab you’re picking up, all that matters is that progress is being made. I know that sometimes it can feel like we’re lowering our standards by just striving to make progress, but then again, if you are like me, who had month long gaps in the initial stages of RTK study, maybe it isn’t a lower standard after all.

I hope this helps!

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By: Kimura

Kimura — Sat, 03 Dec 2011 06:48:42 +0000

That “attempting to force 100 kanji a day” thing is what really nailed it for me. My original plan was to finish RTK by the end of the year, and at my current amount of completion (~450 kanji), I’d have to do 100 a day to get there. But lately I’ve been looking at that amount in Anki and going “Screw it, I’m playing Minecraft.” But at the same time, dropping it down to my if-I’m-lucky rate of 25 kanji a day means I won’t finish in time for what I need to do (an internship at a local Japanese cultural center, but I’ll probably be using English there anyway). I dunno, maybe 25 kanji twice a day, see what happens? Or just drop down to just 25 kanji once a day, since my retention level is bombing right now…
Probably the other thing that’s slowing me down is the prep work I have to do, since the deck I’m using 1) removed about 150 rarely-used kanji (it’s the Japanese Level Up deck), and 2) is configured for 5th edition while my copy of RTK is 6th edition, so I have to figure out which ones in the book are actually in the deck before I can do them…

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By: Marc

Marc — Fri, 02 Dec 2011 14:08:15 +0000

I more or less realized this stuff conciously when we had to clean up the living room, and my wife said she didn’t even know where to start… I just pick up the neasrest piece of rubbish and put it where it belongs, picking up other stuff (or not) when I pass it. There’s no system, but the room’s clean before you know it
Nice article!

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By: Miss Language Learning

Miss Language Learning — Tue, 01 Nov 2011 17:00:34 +0000

I want to be a tortoise. They’re cool and cuddly. And they get things done.

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By: AJATT SilverSpoon: You Will Be Fluent in Japanese 595 Days From Now | AJATT | All Japanese All The Time

Wed, 04 May 2011 06:37:24 +0000

[...] Tortoise math isn’t normal math. Tortoise math is the math of tortoises — you know, the kind that race hares. [...]

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By: Brainwashing Yourself for Fun and Profit « muflax' mindstream

Brainwashing Yourself for Fun and Profit « muflax' mindstream — Wed, 09 Mar 2011 15:27:23 +0000

[...] aspect of this is consistent small progress, or in Khatzu's words, tortoises versus hares. I've finally seen the light (Hallelujah!) on this because of two [...]

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By: Patrick

Patrick — Wed, 02 Feb 2011 22:35:12 +0000

“I learned Japanese almost by accident.”

I know exactly what you mean. After studying Kanji everyday for a couple months it just becomes part of you and something you do without stress. It’s a lifestyle change and if you’re willing to make it, the language is yours.

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By: Some random guy

Some random guy — Tue, 26 Oct 2010 16:18:07 +0000

I have been following your blog for quite some time, and I figured out that when I am a hare, I never remember any kanji at all. However, when I do the tortoise, It dawned to me that I nearly recognized all the JLPT N5 Kanji (yeah, I’m still there). Thanks for the awesome post. It was really inspirational ( and the first on that got me to comment on it!). I feel like I just want to jump in doing everything in Japanese without that slow and steady transition!

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By: Tyler

Tyler — Sun, 25 Jul 2010 20:02:25 +0000

I got a fortune from a fortune cookie the other day that reminded me of this post.

“Winners forget they’re in a race, they just love to run.”

Ultimately, if you make the experience as enjoyable as possible and keep from focusing on getting it over with, you’ll be better off in the long run. The thing is just to get lost in the language, to enjoy running for running’s sake. Everything else will take care of itself eventually.

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By: Chris

Chris — Wed, 14 Jul 2010 18:58:40 +0000

I guess after reading all your posts I’m really a tortoise o.o

I usually don’t even get through even ten kanji a day even though I spend maybe three or four hours per day at minimum immersed in Japanese (and enjoying it). So after about a year and a half I know around 700 kanji, which seems like not much at all after reading what you guys say. Most of you are using Heisig right? I’ve tried it a few times, but I find it ineffective for myself. I think that I’d much rather learn word compounds then kanji strictly by themselves.

I don’t know so well, but for myself using an SRS and Heisig have bored me, so I just spend time now reading books and news articles, and looking up new words

Hopefully there isn’t anything wrong with this (>.<)

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By: lucy

lucy — Sun, 11 Jul 2010 03:07:42 +0000

You know, I’ve never really thought about it but it really makes sense when you think about it.Up until know I’ve always been a hare but now I’ll try to be a tortoise.
Thanks khatz!

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By: Best Practices for Japanese Newbies « unlikelysquiggle

Best Practices for Japanese Newbies « unlikelysquiggle — Mon, 22 Feb 2010 02:18:07 +0000

[...] 6. Be a tortoise, not a hare Okay, this one I stole from Khatzumoto, but I’ll be a monkey’s uncle if it isn’t true. Sure your rate of improvement is directly proportional to how much time you but in, but it isn’t like filling a coin jar. Whether you put in two quarters every day or 60 quarters at the end of the month does matter. It’s like eating. Your body probably wants around 2,000 calories per day, and we tend to spread them around the the waking hours. If you eat 10,000 calories for breakfast on Monday, you may skip some meals but you will be hungry long before Friday rolls around. You haven’t thwarted the eating system by filling your coin jar for the month, you’ve gained weight and probably messed up your metabolism. Just like your body is good at processing calories, even excess ones, it’s really good at forgetting stuff that isn’t constantly reinforced. If you want to eat properly, you have to eat three meals a day every day, and if you want to learn Japanese you have to practice regularly and routinely. Read more about why tortoises are much better than hares over at Khatzumoto’s site. [...]

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By: All Japanese All The Time Dot Com: How to learn Japanese. On your own, having fun and to fluency. » Losing Your Way in a Language, and Finding It Again: Identity, Means, Ends, Tortoises and Hares

Sun, 21 Feb 2010 03:02:05 +0000

[...] remember the original Tortoises and Hares post, right? Well, I got this really insightful email about it from a virulently handsome man named [...]

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By: アメド

アメド — Tue, 16 Feb 2010 05:18:01 +0000

Yea i’m definitely a hare. Although i do take it easy, i feel i can handle the load due to timeboxing it all within 1 hour each day. And rest is immersion. I think personally i’ve reached a good level so far in japanese. But i feel that i can do more and therefore enjoy it more. I always do reward myself with fun material after wards, such as anime,games,sites,etc.

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By: Patrick

Patrick — Tue, 16 Feb 2010 02:21:40 +0000

Anyone out there having any luck being a tortoise and not SRS’ing at all? (sentences I mean)

SRS’ing makes me a hare and i sometimes wonder if spending that time experiencing some japanese via other means is better spent? I mean, it takes alot of work to make some good SRS cards that aren’t copy and paste-able.

Apologies if this idea has come up in other thread comments.

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By: Jeremy

Jeremy — Mon, 15 Feb 2010 17:43:30 +0000

This is very true. When I was going at an extreme pace, I would add maybe a 100 a day for a few days but then I would just stop adding cards and do the minimum amount of reviews for a few weeks. This was terrible for the rhythm.

Now I add just 10 cards a day plus do all my reviews and if I’m feeling energetic, I’ll add a few more for fun.

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By: Flo

Flo — Mon, 15 Feb 2010 16:17:27 +0000

*I meant “For the first 1000 kanjis I used to be a tortoise”

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By: Flo

Flo — Mon, 15 Feb 2010 16:15:50 +0000

Thank you for the article.
To be honest I was a bit surprised because after having read all the previous articles, I thought your profile woud be more “hare”, because of the ideas of always moving forward, don’t do anything in another language, etc.
But as a matter of fact it’s logical. I’m still in the kanji phase now. For the first 1000 kanjis I used to be a hare, and after I improved the pace (I was like 10 a day and after 1000 it became 20 a day). Today I’ve learnt about 1900, and when I do the reps, it dawns on me that it’s much easier to remember the first 1000 than the following ones.
But anyway, the failure rate is not so high though, it’s like 20 kanjis forgotten out of 100. Since I plan to keep reviewing even after having finished the book, I guess it will eventually stick sooner than later.

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By: Drewskie

Drewskie — Mon, 15 Feb 2010 04:31:33 +0000

I hate to post something completely and utterly unrelated, but the location for ‘completely related’ is currently uncommentable. Probably because Khatz reads comments as compulsively as I do.

A few posts ago, I think maybe during the post about Maya’s mass-deletion effort, I mentioned that I felt something similar coming on specifically related to dictionary-born cards. Somebody said something like “The SRS only helps you remember what you already know.” It was a simple statement, but it went directly counter to my strategy at that point. It was a smack in the face for two reasons: One, it meant that if it were true, I had been doing it wrong for quite a while, and Two, I knew immediately that it was utterly correct.

I started focusing on what I think is probably more typical sentence material, and those were nice, but I still hadn’t recovered from the funk I felt coming on. In fact, it had gotten worse. Tonight, I was having an enormous amount of trouble starting my reps, which have piled up in the hundreds three or four in the last couple weeks. I couldn’t even do them anymore. I forced myself to start reviewing, when after only 8 cards, I couldn’t stand the garbage any longer. All of a sudden, I realized it was nearly all garbage. My cards have progressively gotten better–both format and content–but because of this, there was a tremendous amount of unevenness. For every great card, there were 10 merely okay cards.

So at 1600 cards, I’m finally cutting my deck apart. Of the 700 cards I’ve examined in the last half hour, I’ve kept less than 25. It feels really, really good.

The point of this comment is to thank everyone for the advice I got in the last thread. I had intended to write something like this much earlier (even though the content would’ve been different), but the comments turned off and I wasn’t able to make that post.

And I’m sorry that I don’t have a thing to say regarding the topic of this post. Khatz is just plain right. I got out of my hare phase during the kanji and never looked back.

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